TikTok Therapy Trends, Overprotective Parenting, and Raising Resilient Kids with Trey Tucker

 In this episode, Dr. Alison is joined by counselor and podcast host Trey Tucker for an honest conversation about the rise of therapy culture online, the pitfalls of over-identifying with a diagnosis, and how parents can help kids build resilience instead of anxiety.

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Together, they unpack:

• The rise of “TikTok Therapy”—what’s helpful about therapy content online and where it falls short.
• Why so many people are tempted to define themselves by a diagnosis—and how that can keep us stuck.
• The difference between true boundaries and emotional avoidance.
• Parenting without panic: how to model calm presence instead of passing anxiety on to the next generation.
• Why resilience, not fragility, is one of the greatest gifts we can offer our kids.
  
  

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Alison and Trey bring different perspectives with a shared passion for nuance, honesty, and practical hope. It’s a refreshing, thought-provoking dialogue that will encourage you to think differently about therapy, identity, and how we show up in family life.

📚 Learn more about Trey’s work at www.ruggedcounseling.com

📥For more in-depth listening, check out his podcast, Rugged with Trey Tucker and his socials

📥 Grab your 3 free Boundaries For Your Soul resources here 

📥 Download Alison’s free printable with the five boundary tools when you sign up for her weekly email.

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More episodes you might like :

Episode 65:Vulnerability, Parenting, and Letting Go of Control—Inside A Guy’s Perspective With Our Friends From Dadville

Episode 66:  The Truth About Anxiety & How to Become a Worry Free Parent with Sissy Goff

Episode 41: Boundaries With Fear And Anxiety—How to Calm the Chaos Within and the Joy of Internal Boundaries

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Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

The Anxious Generation by Jonathan Haidt — mentioned in the context of the impact of social media on kids and rising anxiety.

Boundaries for Your Soul by Alison Cook & Kimberly Miller — you referenced it when talking about IFS and faith integration.

Fathered by God by John Eldredge — Trey mentioned this when discussing father wounds and stages of a man’s life.

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💬 Got a question? Call 307-429-2525 and leave a message for a future episode.

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*Some of the links above are Amazon affiliate links. If you choose to purchase through them, I may earn a small commission at no extra cost to you.

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Editing by Giulia Hjort

Sound engineering by Kelly Kramarik

Music by Andy Luiten

While Dr. Cook is a counselor, the content of this podcast and any of the products provided by Dr. Cook are not specific counseling advice nor are they a substitute for individual counseling. The content and products provided on this podcast are for informational purposes only.‍

© 2025 Alison Cook. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Please do not copy or share the contents of this webpage or transcript without permission from the author.

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Transcript

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Alison Cook: Hey everyone, and welcome back to this week's episode of the Best of You. I'm so glad you're here today for a conversation that I think so many of you are gonna find, both refreshing and challenging in the best possible way.

Today I'm joined by fellow therapist and podcast host Trey Tucker, and This episode's a little different than some I've done in the past. It's really just a conversation between two therapists. We take turns diving into some of the hot topics we've both been wrestling with. You'll hear us unpack the rise of therapy, speak on platforms like TikTok and Instagram, how it's helpful in some ways, but also where it's falling short.

We talk about the dangers of over identifying with a diagnosis, The nuance between real boundaries and emotional avoidance and why resilience not fragility is one of the greatest gifts we can offer the next generation.

And what I love about this conversation is Trey, number one is a guy. So he has a different perspective than I [00:01:00] do, but he also works primarily with young adults with Gen Z and young millennials. whereas my focus is primarily on women, and so it was a really fun conversation to just tackle some of these topics from our two different perspectives.

 Trey is a licensed professional counselor educator and the host of the Rugged with Trey Tucker Podcast, where he shares mental health insights honesty and depth, especially for men and young adults.

His work blends experience from the education world, private practice and online spaces where he is helping reframe what it means to be emotionally healthy in a culture that often confuses comfort with healing. 

 this is one of those episodes where I genuinely forgot we were recording because the conversation was just so rich, and it was just so fun to bat some of these ideas back and forth with a fellow therapist.

I hope it speaks to you and encourages you and maybe even challenges you to think a little differently. Please enjoy my conversation with Trey Tucker.

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INTERVIEW

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Alison Cook: Tell me a little bit about, you're a therapist, you're in [00:02:00] Chattanooga. What does your life look like there? Family background, all the things.

Trey Tucker: Yeah, being a therapist is really fun. I actually came to it late in life. I kind of jumped mid-career. I started out in Educate. Well student. I started out in the corporate world. I was in marketing and then I learned a lot, but also learned it wasn't really fulfilling. So. I knew I wanted to really invest in people's lives on a one-on-one type of basis.

And so I switched over. I just, I started working in education. I was teaching and coaching and the students, I mean, almost from day one, they would just bring me a lot of just tough life struggles, and I was honored by the fact that they were, but. I always felt ill-equipped to really give 'em a, a solid answer.

And so at some point along the way, a few years into that, I just decided, all right, I'm going to get a counseling master's. And as you know, that's no small undertaking. So I was working full-time still, so I was doing the [00:03:00] part-time school thing to get the, the masters done. Now I still do a mixture of work in the education world and also in the private practice world.

And also all these videos and podcasts and things that, that tend to become the beasts that always wants to be fed as you know. So

Alison Cook: Yeah.

Trey Tucker: between that mix, it's, it's a really fun ride. Most mornings I wake up and it doesn't even feel right work that I'm getting ready to go do. It's just like I, I can't believe that I get paid for this.

Alison Cook: That's awesome. And do you. Yeah, so I actually started as teaching too. That's interesting. I went right into, I worked with adjudicated teens and I loved it as a teacher.

Trey Tucker: 

Alison Cook: at a, a school for girls who were, there because they'd been essentially put there instead of going to jail.

 I loved it. And so again, it was that blend of education, but also just. These tough situations, family stuff. Most of them, all came from terrible families. This was in Wyoming where I grew up. and then that just sparked my interest in [00:04:00] these dynamics. So I went and got my master's degree and then went on to do my PhD, which is in both psychology and religion.

'cause I was always toggling between the two. Right. Like, I think just like you and I'd love to hear more from you on that. you know, there's the spiritual dimension of healing, but then there's the psychological, but then I got into like clinical psychology and it felt very void. Of the spiritual dementia.

So I kind of flipped back to both end. And so I've always kind of tried to keep that. That's kind of the big thing I try to tie together, in what I do.

Trey Tucker: Yeah. do you tend to find yourself coming down one side or the other in terms of which you access more with a client?

Alison Cook: That's a good question. I don't see a lot of clients anymore, but whether with people, with clients in my own work, this is something I'd love to ask you. I can go back and forth. I can see issues with both. So in, in the faith world, I see the issues with. Over spiritualizing stuff, right?

That is trauma or family patterns or brain. but then in the [00:05:00] psychology world, I can get so frustrated with just what feels sort of, empty.

Trey Tucker: Mm-hmm.

Alison Cook: So focused on the individual. So focused on myself. And that was one thing I wanted to ask you. You know, we kind, especially in the social media world of therapy, where everybody's kind of.

 speaking the language and sometimes I think, is this really got substance to it?

Trey Tucker: Uh, yeah, I, I'm glad you said that because I'm getting more and more fed up with it at first, especially the first probably couple years like. 2020 and then 21 22. I was thinking, all right, this is awesome. We're normalizing therapy and people are talking about their mental health and, and then the last year or two, frankly, I just noticed people.

Either becoming weak or staying weak and they're using therapy language as a way to stay stuck. the word fragile just keeps coming in on my mind as I see a lot of these videos of like, you know, you need to [00:06:00] cut off your parents 'cause they didn't give you everything you needed as a 

 child, or your friend wouldn't appreciate the fur measure of who you are. You just need to walk away. I'm like, oh my gosh. Like at what point did we expect. The real to be perfect and our parents to be perfect. And then our response is, well, I'm just gonna cut everybody off. I mean, that's a perfect recipe to stay weak.

So there's my little soapbox, but we can go any direction we want. What do you think though?

Alison Cook: Well, this is what I was kind of hoping for because looking at your account and looking at mine, there's definitely, we, we bring very different sort of energy. Maybe more male, more female energy, and yet. there's similar things that I see. The one that I see is the kind of, I am my diagnosis

Trey Tucker: Uh, yeah.

Alison Cook: as a, as a, well, it's just my anxiety or it's just this, and again, not that there aren't times and places for any of these things, right.

You and I both know this. And also it's almost like they, they become easy shortcuts and to me, I see it as very similar to what. What I [00:07:00] don't like simultaneously in the faith community where, where there could be some of these C cliche, oh, God just took it away. you know, that's sort of a magical fix that maybe happens in some instances, but the reality of 

 messiness, all this stuff is messy. I talk a lot about boundaries and then. At the one end, you know, it was so important for me to learn boundaries. And then on the same side, I see this, oh, that's just my boundary. And I'm like, I don't think that's a boundary. I think that's you putting up a brick wall and you don't wanna deal with something, you know?

Trey Tucker: Exactly. Hiding behind that brick wall and calling it a boundary,

Alison Cook: Yeah. Yeah.

Trey Tucker: The messiness for sure. I totally resonated with that. We, I've gotten better at showing my mess just in my own life. 'cause for a long time I just worked under the assumption that I need to look like I've got it all together, even though I know I don't have it all together.

And like that wasn't a mental health thing. That was just a kind of my own background thing. But as I became a therapist, I started realizing, wait a minute, I'm a mess. And if I show my clients at least a little bit of my mess, [00:08:00] then they're gonna be more likely to. Reciprocate and open up as well. And then it's, it's had that same effect in friendships and family and whatnot.

But yeah, we, we have to be willing to, to show our messiness and then tolerate it because like you said, if, if everything is just clear cut and black and white, nothing's ever gonna change.

Alison Cook: There's no perfect conversation. you know, so much of life is the rupture and then kind of trying to figure out how to come back to each other. So let's, I wanna get into vulnerability 'cause you talk a lot about that from a male perspective, and I think it's so interesting. Before we get there, let's close the loop on this sort of social media.

So, you create content, you. On there. You have a podcast, are you on TikTok? Or, or

Trey Tucker: I'm, I'm in the wild world of TikTok and Instagram and all that.

Alison Cook: so how do you, let's say, as a parent, and even for our listeners who are parents or for ourselves, who am I a kid that I never go down the, the TikTok Rabbit trail?

'cause I do. how do [00:09:00] you delineate healthy? And unhealthy, and how do you stay grounded in your own real messy life versus the social media version?

Trey Tucker: Yeah, it, it was tough at first because. When I first started making videos, I had no idea what I'm doing or what I was doing. I still don't have a great idea of what I'm doing, but at least I'm a little less of a rookie. And so it, it really became, almost an obsession. Like it took up almost all the real estate in my head of like, any conversation I would have or any article I would read, I would find my brain stuttering to try to filter it towards world.

How can I make the video? Yeah. You know,

Alison Cook: yes.

Trey Tucker: so over the last couple years there, I just realized like, not only was that not helping the content, it was mainly not helping me. I just felt like I was short tempered and tired all the time mentally. So now if I come up with an idea, I'll type it in a note in my phone and then I'll record it a whole lot less [00:10:00] formally than I used to do it.

And I'll care less if it does Well, and and as far as a parent, I mean. I'll tell you a story. You probably have something similar. I was in the grocery store about two months ago and I saw a daughter and her mom, the daughter looked to be around 14, 15 years old, a mom just walking around in front of her daughter on the phone, and I could tell the mom was watching some sort of, whether it's Instagram or TikTok, I don't know, but she was scrolling.

The daughter was not, and the mom continually was like. About to bump into stuff because she kept watching her phone and the the daughter said, ma, get off your phone and walk.

Alison Cook: Wow.

Trey Tucker: So we, as adults, we've gotta model it. We're brewing just as badly as teens are. And then so many parents they hand their kid a phone or some sort of device at such a young age, and that brings in all kinds of other horrific things like pornography.

But yeah, I think soon, very soon we're gonna realize. This stuff is gonna be like cigarettes ended up being in the fifties and sixties.

Alison Cook: [00:11:00] yeah, think there's a reason the Jonathan Hates book, the Anxious Generation has hits such a nerve. I, I dunno what you think about what he's saying or what he's,

Trey Tucker: fully agree?

Alison Cook: Yeah, what, what he's putting out there. But I, I think there's a reason so many of us are recognizing, I, I think to myself, I don't know how old you are.

 I grew up before really the internet. I, I got the internet in college, you know, email. and I am so grateful. because I know the way my brain works and, and I think it's different legitimately for different people, I think it would've been excruciatingly hard for me as a young girl comparing myself to others.

I, it's hard enough now, I cannot imagine what it would've been before my brain was formed, and I'm just so grateful.

Trey Tucker: Oh, it'd be, it'd be horrific. I, I tell people, especially the students that I teach, it's like there is an amount of money that I would take to go back into my teenage years, but. It we're talking like hundreds of millions to go back into this culture being a teenager, because whether it's social media or [00:12:00] just other influences.

Yeah. The, the comparison trap is just horrendous and I, I, for a girl especially, I can't even imagine

Alison Cook: Yeah. Yeah. I think about it. I, I live in a small town here most of the year. We live in the town. I grew up in Wyoming. In, there's something about a small town where there's still that sense of there's dignity in just a certain job working at a restaurant, being a postman, you know, I used to work at the local restaurant and there was like dignity in it and there's a place of belonging in an embodied community where it's like, oh, I see you.

I, I know you and, and I do this, and you do this. And together we make this community. Run. And, and there's this sort of togetherness in that, where everybody kinda has a place no matter what you're doing, you know, whether you're the mayor of town or whether you're, you know, I don't know, whatever.

And, I feel like that's what gets lost when you're comparing yourself to the globe.

Trey Tucker: right. Yeah. our brains were never designed to know what was going on in all [00:13:00] over the globe at any given moment. I mean, you're talking about a source of anxiety that that alone causes plenty. I.

Alison Cook: Yes, yes,

Trey Tucker: But the, the smaller town vibe, I'm, I'm jealous of you. 'cause I personally think that's really how we were all wired to live. I don't know if it was John Eldridge or somebody, he really mapped this out in a longer way. But the gist of it is he, he thinks we should all be still living in small villages of about a hundred to 150 people. Where relationships happen, like you're talking about, and everybody has a dignified royal and is seen and valued just because.

Everything is more manageable instead of just overwhelmed all the time.

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AD BREAK I

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Alison Cook: all right, Trey, switching gears, Are you trained in IFS or familiar with IFS?

Trey Tucker: I love IFSI, knew about it as a therapist, I was already trained in other things like CBT and e, MDR R and all the alphabets. But I always looked at IFS as this weird little thing where you have to like talk to things inside of you. Like, I'm not doing that. But [00:14:00] I got to a point in my own anxiety where I was like.

Ain't nothing else working. And I know a lot of tools that should be working. And so I went to a therapist who was trained in IFS as basically like a last resort, and it has changed my life. So ever since then, I've tried to get more and more training. 'cause I, I want people to experience what I've done through it.

So I'm assuming you're as well.

Alison Cook: I should send you a copy. So I wrote co-wrote Boundaries for Your Soul,

Trey Tucker: Oh, that's flying.

Alison Cook: adaptation of IFS. This's done pretty well among Christian therapists. So yes, I am familiar with it. It's really the heartbeat of everything I do, and it was it, to me, it was that perfect integration of.

Faith. 'cause we, we brought in, in IFS as you know, you know, the self is the center and we, brought in, we call it the spirit led self. The place where you collide with the spirit of God, with God's spirit. Right. That's where, it was just so life changing for me.

'cause I was like, oh, this is where it all comes [00:15:00] together.

 Like a part of me, loves being a therapist. A part of me is constantly pushing against therapy. a part of me, loves church and a part of me sometimes is like, Ugh, I don't like what they're saying.

You know,  it just kind of made sense of all of

Trey Tucker: Yep.

Alison Cook: Kind of competing kind of aspects to me, and they're all part of me. And so It's just a way to understand more of how we're made in the image of God, which means we're  really unique and parts of us get hurt, and that doesn't mean that all of us is hurt.

Trey Tucker:  Do you think it's accurate to say that IFS from a spiritual perspective takes us a little bit in a positive way back to a Genesis two, like pre Genesis three, pre fall kind of a look at ourselves,

Alison Cook: I never thought about it that way, but when people talk about, the heavy emphasis on original sin, I do always think to myself, but when God first made us, we were good. And I do think it's who we will become. when we're finally on the other [00:16:00] side, but, and we're not there yet, but there are glimmers of it.

And so, we kind of go through in Boundaries for Your Soul. When we go through that section, we talk about, , you know, in John 14 where Jesus says, I'm leaving you, but I'm leaving you with a comforter, a counselor who will come to be with you, who will come to live in you, which is the spirit. And so that becomes this. There is a place inside. Where suddenly we can connect to

Trey Tucker: Yeah.

Alison Cook: a glimpse of that truest version of ourself. That's the hope, right? 

Trey Tucker: Right, right. Okay. That's helpful. I'm gonna use that.  I'll give you credit. I promise.

Alison Cook: Well, I, um, 

I would love to hear from you as a guy—tell me a little bit more about your journey with anxiety and how that really unlocked things for you.

Because I get questions from listeners often. a lot of my listeners are love, Incorporated parts language, even if they've never done, you know, IFS therapy. But, how [00:17:00] do I help my, especially like my spouse understand this, I have mostly female listeners, or even my sons understand this.

So I'd love to hear your perspective on that.

Trey Tucker: Yeah. Yeah. Anxiety. I'm thankful for it. Both. Its positive traits and not so pleasant traits because I see now that it's actually trying to help me and I'm thankful for the unpleasant parts of it because it gives me more of an empathy for my clients who also have it, and, and it can be so, so uncomfortable.

And when I first started dealing with it, I. I was not a therapist, so I had really no tools. So I basically treated the anxiety as the enemy. Like, this is, this thing's trying to attack me, so I'm gonna hit it back. And, and then I would start to beat myself up for it. Like, why can't I just get rid of this stuff?

And I'd even, we alize it, like you mentioned earlier, like the won't be anxious for nothing. That's what Paul says. So, and that's, that's a whole nother soap box. But, it culminated. Into my first couple years of actually being a therapist, and I [00:18:00] still had it in my head. That anxiety was the enemy.

I don't think I would've said it like that, but that's, that's how I approached it with clients. And I think I gave them some short term relief, but I never was able to really help 'em get to the root issue. And then my own struggles with the anxiety internally kept coming up.

So I'm like, alright. Something's not working. I need, you know, the whole phrase, nothing changes. If nothing changes. I'm not very smart, but I'm at least smart enough to know I need to change an approach if it ain't working. So I thought, alright, I'll give this IFS thing a shot, even though it's the weirdest concept I've ever heard of, but I tell you where it helped me risk that that movie, uh, inside out.

Alison Cook: Yes.

Trey Tucker: And I'm normally not a cartoon watcher, but like when I saw that, I'm like, oh, okay, if you could look at emotions like this, then a couple things could be true. Number one, they're trying to help, they're just kind of misguided sometimes, and number two, they're not me, so I don't have to beat myself up for it.

So it's like I'm not my [00:19:00] anxiety, I'm not my thoughts. It's these other parts in me that think they're helping So in terms of mild own anxiety, yeah, One of my wounds, or like injuries that I talk about is the thought is not good enough and forgotten. Like, those two thoughts from past moments have been kind of the messages that have tried to stick around in me.

And thanks to IFS, those, don't weigh on me nearly as much anymore. But when I start to get anxious or some other, not so healthy emotion, then I start realizing like, okay. something's hitting this, bruise 

 you know, if somebody hits the bruise that we already have, physically, we're gonna overreact to that 'cause there's already pain. So anyway, long story short, IFS helped me realize, okay, I can actually connect to this little thing in there that's pumping the anxiety and.

 it took a long time 'cause there was so much skepticism and so much brain fog. But when I finally did connect with that part, I realized like, dang, this thing is [00:20:00] working overtime and, is very exhausted trying to help me out by scanning for possible things that might cause me more pain like I'd experienced in the past.

And it, it really like broke my heart in a good way for that part. 'cause it, it seemed like a little 5-year-old toddler that. Was really trying to do its best, but just didn't know any better, but it was working its tail off trying to help. 

Alison Cook: That's beautiful. You talk a little bit, I know in some of your content about father wounds.

Trey Tucker: mm-hmm.

Alison Cook: Is that come out of your own experience and how do you describe that for others?

Trey Tucker: Yeah, the answer to my own story is yes, and it's in everybody's story because just like we talked about a few minutes ago. Nobody got a perfect parent. Nobody got a perfect dad. Nobody got a perfect mom. And so the wins are gonna happen. Like, sorry, it's just a question of which ones are you gonna get.

And thankfully I had awesome [00:21:00] parents and as awesome as there were, there were still gaps. 'cause my dad's dad left the family when my dad was 10 years old. And so he never really had a model for like. Not just how to be a dad, but just how to grow into a man. And so he picked up a lot of, knowledge and skills along the way from mentors who invested into him.

But inevitably, there were still some parts that were kind of unfinished in him. And Any unfinished parts in us are gonna get passed along to how we treat our kids or the people around us. So, yeah, I, I've got my own father wounds and a book that really opened my eyes to this is called Fathered by God.

 it's also by John Eldridge. And I, would encourage women to read it as well, but it's really written for men because it, takes you through the stages of a man's life from brain hood. All the way through the elderly years. And it talks about like, here are the things that really ideally should happen to a boy as he becomes a man in each of these stages.

And most of the things that should happen to us [00:22:00] have to do with our father investing in us in some way. And so he also talks about the inevitable moments where a dad. is, you know, slightly imperfect or as as extreme as left the family altogether. And he shows, okay, here's how you can get what you missed out on from your relationship with God the father.

'cause ultimately, he's the perfect dad and we're his kids. And if we can let him father us, both as sons and as daughters, that's really what's gonna make us whole. So that's the. The gist of my journey, but I notice it in every single, person that I get deep enough with, but especially every client is there's at least a parent wound, partially responsible for whatever they're struggling with in the moment.

Alison Cook: I love how you're talking about it. I can tell just in this conversation, you and I share a sort of, really genuine longing for nuance because

Trey Tucker: Hmm.

Alison Cook: Right. It is true that we all have parent wounds. We just do. there's [00:23:00] no perfect family and that's also not to lay blame.

Trey Tucker: Right.

Alison Cook: I know my kids are gonna come to me, you know?

 they do. I think that's part of where the health lies, right? Is, they're like why did you just say that? Or you just broke a B, you know? And I'm like, oh, right. You know, like, 

Trey Tucker: Using those words against you, huh?

Alison Cook: just cannot. Be there at every moment and it is, you know, when you were talking about IFS and then you're talking about God, it, to me that was so much the power similarly for me is it took away blame.

I don't have to get this from my parents because I can now. Connect to the part of me that didn't make the basketball when I was in seventh grade and felt so ashamed and felt like I'll never be good enough and I'll never be chosen and I can find that part of me and God. there is a way to that part of me that, that no imperfect human.

 could reach and, that's just the reality of this [00:24:00] journey. so I really relate to a lot of what you're saying with all of that.

Trey Tucker: the nuance is key. 'cause like you said, if, if we allow ourselves to stay in blame, what we're really implicitly saying is that we're expecting earth to be heaven. And if earth is perfect in heaven, then we don't really need heaven. So like, I don't know, sorry, earth ain't perfect news flash. So even, even atheists who I think would, would agree with that statement, we got, we got some problems here.

So since it's broken, we can't expect. Perfection from other people.

Alison Cook: And so this gets at resilience, and you

Trey Tucker: Mm-hmm.

Alison Cook: talked earlier about this idea of fragility.

we have to be able to live in a world that will hurt us. How do you, and what's on your heart and what do you want people to know, whether it's your clients, whether it's listeners and all the work that you do about that?

Trey Tucker: Yeah. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. 'cause sometimes, I think I come across maybe too strong on it, but I keep reminding [00:25:00] people, you can handle this. And even if you can't fully handle this right now, you can build your strength to the point that you can eventually handle it. I come from a sports world and a weightlifting kind of world.

So for example, if, if I'm trying to. Back squat, 400 pounds, that's too much for me. Like I will collapse under that weight. But if I start with 200 pounds and slowly increase my ability to handle the weight little by little, then eventually I'll be able to handle 400 pounds. So I, I can do it.

It's not something that I can just, I need to walk away from forever. And I think handling challenges in life is the same way. It's like, yeah, it might be too heavy for you right now, but yeah. Just keep coming at it. 'cause you got the ability, you just gotta pull that ability out little by little.

But what's your vernacular for that?

Alison Cook: I love how you're saying it, and I, I hope you keep saying it, I heard a story and I can't remember where I heard it but it was a woman talking [00:26:00] about how her daughter was struggling and they were trying to get her into therapy. And I hear this all the time. I've gotta get my kid into therapy, and I, I have thoughts about that, that I'll, I'll set aside for now about kids in therapy, but.

And someone said to her, I wonder if she needs to get into a sport.

Trey Tucker: Mm. Yes.

Alison Cook: I don't think this is, I think sometimes the kid does need therapy, and that's not exactly what you're saying, but there are lots of ways we build those muscles to piggyback on your metaphor.

And one of them is for someone to get in there and, and help us see the parts of ourselves that, that have been broken and that are fragile and that need care and another way. Is to kind of build those muscles through life as a contact sport

Trey Tucker: Absolutely.

Alison Cook: the hard thing and to your point, not in a, don't throw yourself into something you cannot handle,

Trey Tucker: Mm-hmm.

Alison Cook: but to.

Walk into something that's gonna challenge you a little bit, that's gonna test you a little bit, that is [00:27:00] gonna be scary a little bit to see, oh my gosh, I can do it. And I do think that's that balance that we need in this, especially from our end, where there is a almost too quick, I gotta get my kid into therapy.

Trey Tucker: Yes.

Alison Cook: I, I, find myself sometimes like, again, I wanna be really clear for the listener. I think sometimes it a really great therapist can be helpful for your kid. And also, oh man, I don't know. There is another side to that. So I appreciate your speaking into that.

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Trey Tucker: well I'm glad you said it about, therapy being helpful but not necessarily the right time or thing for a particular circumstance. 'cause you tell me what you think about this, but especially in a teenager if a parent talks to me about the option of therapy, one of my first.

The question slash suggestions is, alright. First, do they have any sort of community involvement, whether it's a sport or instrument where they're part of a band or something bigger than themselves that they're a part of and have to be relational and [00:28:00] work. Like you're saying, we're through difficulty building a skill, and number two, do they have anything where they're having to serve?

This doesn't necessarily have to be community service officially, but something like that, because I'm sure you've seen, how much research there is about that service is really one of the things that grows us the quickest at any age, but especially for a teen before they just dive into therapy. I wanna know those two things.

Alison Cook: Yeah, that's a really good, those are really helpful. I think for me, I'm looking at the parent and I'm thinking to myself, can the parent be a resource to kind of anchor the child as the child is, stepping into some of these 

 I wanna work with the parent to help equip the parent to help the child navigate what's hard. At the same time, I understand there are situations where the parent can't. And that's where then I see the therapist coming in, whether it's one parent, where that [00:29:00] therapist can come in as sort of the co-parent. or where the parents are just not able to do it and for whatever reason the therapist is kind of helping the kid navigate.

And so that's kind of how I've looked at it, is I don't think it should be a substitute. A therapist can be really helpful, but they're still not pulling the kid out of the hard things, they're empowering and equipping the, child, to navigate the hard thing. So I, I never wanna do it apart from parents. I always wanna do it kind of understanding the whole system there.

Trey Tucker: Yeah, I love that. What do we do in those situations when the parent almost can't help themselves but pull their kid out of a struggle?

Alison Cook: and to me, that then becomes a conversation with the parent you know, some education around, what they need most is to [00:30:00] know that you can be with them and you are not gonna buckle or fold during their hard time.

Trey Tucker: Yeah. Yeah.

Alison Cook: 'cause so often it's the parent's anxiety, you know, I can't handle it, that my kid isn't X, y, and Z.

And it's, well, then the kid's anxiety's really spiking 'cause they already feel it and then they feel yours.

Trey Tucker: Yeah. Responsible for Kim people.

Alison Cook: yeah. So try to help the parent be like, I get that this is hard. I hate it with you. when do I need to intervene? You know, if you're being bullied mercilessly at school, when do I need to advocate for you?

You know? When do I need to be that safe place when you come home and be like, you did it. You made it through another tough day, and I will be here every single day because I'm okay. You know? I think so often that's, the work for the parent, and You know, for me that's always been a tricky one.

I'm always wanting help the parent. 'cause I, I do gets back to what we were talking about. I do think it's such an important role. It's not everything, we're not [00:31:00] gonna be perfect, but the more we can grow, boy, that's what our kids need the most, is that we're gonna be okay. You know? And that 'cause that's what God, God doesn't always save us.

Out of everything. Right? But God is always right there going, I'm here. I'm not leaving. I see how brave you're being. I know it's hard, you know, you can come back to me. I'll heal your wound. I'll give you a big hug, and then we're gonna send you back out tomorrow. You know? I mean, there's a little bit of that back and forth that we have to learn as parents.

Trey Tucker: yeah, yeah, man. You're good at this. I, it's almost like you need to write a book or something, and I'm glad you're, working with parents so intently on that, because one of the things I've noticed when a parent pulls their kid out of a struggle, the message that gets sent to the kid is, you can't handle this.

Alison Cook: I know.

Trey Tucker: the parent would never say that verbally. But that's, that's the implied thing, is like, you can't handle it. Only I can. So sorry. You don't have what it takes and you're gonna [00:32:00] have to keep relying on me forever.

Alison Cook: So how do you, I know you do a lot of work with young adults. . .

Trey Tucker: Mm-hmm. I do, yeah. Most, of the people in their twenties and early thirties, and that's, it's such a, such a tough age range. I,I personally think that for a man, especially that age 22, 23 is at least one of the. Toughest times in his life, if not the toughest, because especially if he's gone to college, everything has changed his, his city has changed.

He's no longer a student. So part of his identity has changed, his friend group changed. His routine is changing. He's having to adjust to really the first real job and all the different pressures and expectations that come with that. So it is just a. Torrential downpour of new stuff to have to either move on from or adjust to.

And so often they come to me just struggling to, pivot and figuring out, uh, who am I now? And like, what do I do next? So it, that's my favorite age to work [00:33:00] with.

Alison Cook: and what are some of the things you're seeing? So you're kind of with Gen Z, some young millennials. What are, what are some of your, the things you're seeing that give you concern and also the things that give you hope?

Trey Tucker: Yeah, the, we'll start with concerns and get those outta the way. 'cause I think the concerns are pretty much universal, to the age, but maybe a little more emphasized in the twenties, is that they were the first generation to. spend a pretty decent amount of time of their youth having phones, if not in their hands, but in front of them.

And so a lot of my concern is not everybody here, but a lot of people at that age have a, I hate to say it, but a lack of ability to just talk face to face and. Connect and stick through maybe some of the awkward, silent moments of a conversation without immediately reaching for the phone to bail 'em out of the awkwardness.

general social skills is one of 'em. there is a. More of a self-focus, I think partly because of some of the therapy language that you were talking about earlier, like it's all about [00:34:00] self-love and your truth and all that. Like think that rubs off even in people that don't realize it.

But I also notice on the positive end, they can see through BS really quickly, I think, quicker than people in their thirties, forties, and up. And because of that, they see the cultural lie that is this whole hustle culture, and you gotta be rich by 25.

Like they'll fall for it for a little bit, but somewhere in those early twenties they realize like this. This is empty, this doesn't actually do what it's claiming to do. So they want a purpose and they, realize that there's a calling on their life and they're, really passionate about trying to discover that.

So those things gimme a lot of hope. But do you work with a change at all, or is it more in the thirties and up?

Alison Cook: Not as much, which is why I'm curious. you know, my own kids are in their twenties, so I get a little window through them, but also I get it through just my own forays and the reality television or, you know, whatever you're kind of seeing out there. and I just, I, I don't like,

 [00:35:00] stereotypes and also I, I know from my own IFS work and my own work, boy was I not quite ready and still forming. And we know this from brain research between like 20 and 26.

Trey Tucker: Mm-hmm.

Alison Cook: I mean, how much I still needed guidance and you're making major decisions.

Trey Tucker: Yeah. Maybe the biggest decisions in.

Alison Cook: I mean, and you're just expected to kind of hit 18 and go to college and be ready for all of this. And so the fact that you're stepping into that gap is just beautiful. To me, that's like a perfect time to, to go see a, a therapist or to kind of make sure you have that connection to someone a little bit older and wiser.

It's, it's so smart.

Trey Tucker: definitely. What do you notice with the folks you work with the most?

Alison Cook: I think some of what we're saying with the moms, it's the getting on top of our own. Stuff, our own [00:36:00] anxiety that, so we're differentiated from the stuff our kids are going through because so often, especially my generation, we're kind of now doing the inner work and going, oh, the anxiety I feel.

Is separate and different from the anxiety they feel. And so I've gotta do that work inside of me so that I can be this calm presence that's not reactive or not over parenting. Right. because we got a little bit more of the.

The CNA not heard childhood. Right. The, the less emotionally attuned, and there's pros and cons to that, right. You know, I grew up, again, we can celebrate the old days, you know, we're out in the streets until dark and nobody's checking on us, And there is a beauty in that.

And also there isn't as much, wasn't as much of that emotional attunement through the hard times. Right. So then we come in as parents and we're attuning to everything.

Trey Tucker: Right.

Alison Cook: Right. It's just so [00:37:00] fascinating, right. The cycles 

 and like it's actually what our kids need is for us to just be like, you're fine.

You know, like, you're gonna be okay, you know, uh, to some degree or another, you know, not to overstate it, but, so that's a little bit more of the always trying to help discern, you know, when it, when do I need to step in and when. these are just some growing pains and I'm here and I see it.

And also, you know, so it's, it's more that kind of thing. So, you know, I tell you what, just this conversation makes me realize how much we really all need to stay in conversation with each other. We need

Trey Tucker: Yeah. Absolutely. I think that's the biggest battle against the screens, is the screens are keeping us isolated and we were built for connection.

Alison Cook: Yeah. just this conversation with you has really, enriched, um, makes me feel like I see things more clearly and all that will trick out into the work that I'm doing. So I'm, I'm really grateful.

Trey Tucker: Me too. Same here with you. I'm glad we're gonna fight the wrong side each other. 'cause you, you're bringing perspectives and ways of saying [00:38:00] things that I hadn't thought of. So let, let's keep this going.

Alison Cook: I hope my listeners will come find you and maybe you could tell us where, folks, you know, can find you and they can listen to both of us and get different perspectives, but also a lot of like-mindedness.

Trey Tucker: Yeah, totally like-minded. I think we're saying the same thing, but just with different vernacular, so I want,my folks to connect with you as well. So on my side of the things at Rugged Counseling is the handle on pretty much everything, whether it's Instagram, TikTok, YouTube. All the things.

I've got, a podcast as well. I'm a rookie at it. I know you're, much more skilled at it than I am, and so I'm, I'm trying to get to, to your level at it, so it's out there too if people wanna see that. what's the podcast called?

Trey Tucker: it's called Rugged with Trades Hacker. I just, I'm a simple dude, so I just try to keep it all simple in names too,

Alison Cook: I think it's great. And this has just been a. [00:39:00]  delight. I'm just so grateful we got to connect in this way.

Trey Tucker: Me too. This has been awesome. How about my week right here. Thank you so much for your time.

Alison Cook: Thank you, Trey. 

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