Science-backed tools.
Spiritually-based wisdom.

So many of us live at war with ourselves. We hate our anxiety or battle with fear. We beat ourselves up or try to get rid of these parts of us. But this approach only makes things worse. One of the most surprising ways to calm your anxiety is to stop waging war against it. In today's episode we discuss how to honor your fear and soothe your anxiety so that you are in charge of them, not the other way around.

‍

Here's what we cover:

1. A picture of healthy internal boundaries

2. How anxiety tries to protect us

3. The surprising truth about fear

4. How to establish healthy boundaries with both fear and anxiety

5. Fear and the Bible

6. 5 Steps to work through fear and anxiety

Be sure to pick up your 3 free Boundaries for Your Soul resources here.  

‍

Thanks to our sponsors:

Organifi -Go to www.organifi.com/bestofyou and use code BESTOFYOU for 20% off your order today.

Hiya Health-Visit hiyahealth.com/BESTOFYOU and get your kids the full-body nourishment they need to grow into healthy adults.

Music by Andy Luiten

Sound editing by Kelly Kramarik

‍

Resources

• Get 46% off Boundaries for Your Soul & The Best of You here.
• Inside Out Movie Trailer
• IFS Institute
• Find a Christian IFS Therapist
• Episode 39: Boundaries for Your Soul—How to Navigate Your Overwhelming Thoughts & Feelings
• Episode 40: 5 Steps to Healing Painful Emotions & Why Parts of Us Get Stuck in the Past
• Mindsight, by Dr. Dan Siegel
• Genesis 1
• Psalm 16:5-6
• Exodus 4:1-10
• Luke 12
• "The wildness is gentled out of a personality at war with itself." Disciplines of the Spirit by Howard Thurman
• Resources for support

‍

Transcript

‍

Alison: Hey everyone, and welcome back to this week's episode of The Best of You Podcast. Where we are in the third episode, in this six-week journey into healthy boundaries for your soul. And before we get started, just in case you haven't, yet, had a chance to go pick up those three free resources. They are still there available for you. 

‍

It's a map of the soul, which we went through in episode 39. There's an 11-day PDF devotional that will take you through, basically, the biblical background for some of these key concepts, that we're talking about in this series. And then there's a guided audio reflection. It's a 10 to 12-minute guided exercise where I walk you through those five steps we talked about in episode 40. 

‍

You can actually extend the length of it. This is really helpful when you're first learning to pay attention to the contents of your own soul. To listen to what's happening inside of you, as I guide you through it.

‍

You can just pause it if you need more time. Don't feel like you have to go at the pace of that guided audio. Just pause it, take the time you need, and then hit play for the next question prompt. Those resources are available for free on my website. 

‍

And you'll also find there that link to get both my books; Boundaries for Your Soul and The Best of You for essentially the price of one book. It works out to be 46% off when you buy them together. It's just a great bundle that my publisher has put together just for you. 

‍

So in episodes 39 and 40, we talked about what it means to have different parts of your soul. What are those different categories of parts are. We also talk through a five-step process of getting to know a part of your soul; to focus on it, befriend it, and invite God to be near it. To unburden it from any belief burdens, or feeling burdens, or messages all the way from the past that are still operating, often, outside of your subconscious awareness.

‍

And then to reintegrate that part of you into your soul in a healthier way. And, today, and for the next few weeks, we're going to get into how to set boundaries with specific emotions. We're getting into this idea of internal boundaries and I'm going to talk more, in today's episode, about what that means. And then we're going to get into fear and anxiety, today. And then we'll move through some of the different emotions over the next few weeks. 

‍

The most commonly researched emotions in psychology, there's five of them. They're happiness — that's the only "Positive" quote-unquote emotion on this list. The others are sadness, fear, anger, and disgust. 

‍

Disgust is an interesting emotion that's linked to our morality. It's very much linked to this idea of judgment, disdain, and even shame. So it's a really interesting emotion. And if you've seen that movie, I've talked about it, I think, in every episode, the Pixar movie, Inside Out, those are the five emotions that they feature as characters in that movie. It's happiness, they call it joy.

‍

• Sadness
• Anger
• Fear
• And disgust. 

‍

So these are very common emotions. So here's the thing, emotions are complicated. They're connected, and I really like how this IFS model, that we're working through, it talks about emotions as connected to these parts of us. 

‍

Emotions are connected to beliefs that you hold. They're connected to memories that you have. They're connected to a whole narrative about your experiences, in this world, that go all the way back to childhood. They're linked to complex neurological systems inside of you. We don't just have emotions in a vacuum, they're complicated.

‍

So, for example, sadness, when you experience sadness, usually, it's associated with a lot of things that you believe about sadness. Your own relationship to sad events. The ways those events have impacted you, in the present. The ways in which sad events have impacted you in the past. You may have created narratives around sadness, such as, "I've always been sad."

‍

"I'm always destined to be sad. I don't know what happiness feels like."

‍

Same with anger. Anger might be tied to certain messages you've come to believe about yourself. "People are never trustworthy."

‍

"People will always let me down." And that goes back all the way to memories you have stored from your past. So these all tie into those burdens, we talked about in step four. Where these parts of us carry burdens, and often these burdens show up as emotions. 

‍

So emotions are complicated, and emotion is tied to a part of us that has a whole narrative about what's happening in front of us. And emotions are linked to each other as well. Anger often shows up as a way to keep pain or sorrow away. Sometimes we get mad at ourselves when we feel fearful or even when we feel sad. 

‍

Sometimes we exile our anger and that's when anxiety can kick up. When we're overthinking, overanalyzing, trying to keep everybody happy. And really what we need to do is get to the root of some anger that will empower us to take action. So these emotions, also, have relationships with each other. And this is, again, why I love this movie, Inside Out, even though it's a kid's movie, is it shows those interrelationships. The way that these emotions compete for authority in our soul. 

‍

Sometimes these emotions are too close to us. Sometimes they are too far away when we exile them. Some of these emotions we wish we had less of, we want more space from. And some of them we've disowned, we've denied, we've shoved aside, and we actually need them to come in a little closer. 

‍

All of these emotions need our leadership from that place inside, where the Holy Spirit lives. Where we're the best of who we are. Where we can name what's happening in our souls and lead ourselves wisely. And this is where we get into internal boundaries. 

‍

So what do we mean by setting boundaries with an emotion? Because typically when we think about boundaries we think about our external relationships. "I need better boundaries with my parents."

‍

"I need better boundaries with my kids."

"I need better boundaries with my friends, with my work." Almost always, when people come to me and say, "I need better boundaries." They are not talking about the contents of their own soul. We're talking about these other people.

‍

The truth is we need both. We need healthy boundaries inside of ourselves and we need healthy boundaries with other people, and the two are very much linked. For example, guilt is a great example. A lot of us have a hard time setting healthy boundaries with other people. Because we have been taken over by a part of us that is a guilt-tripping part of us. 

‍

And, so, we have to learn to set healthy boundaries, internally, with a part of us that guilt trips us erroneously. Not the true guilt of conviction, but the fault guilt of always thinking that we need to do what other people want us to do. We have to first differentiate from that part of us, internally. Set healthy boundaries with our guilt. Learn to reintegrate guilt in a healthy way, so that we can set healthy boundaries with other people.

‍

These two things, these two different types of boundaries, work in tandem. This idea of psychological boundaries is rooted all the way back, in the mid-20th century. With psychiatrist Murray Bowen, who was an American psychiatrist who really developed Family Systems Theory. And, again, we talked about the family as a system of interrelated parts. This is our literal family. If you think to your own family, there's a bunch of individuals who all work together as a system. And just as I said with our emotions, no one individual in a family exists in a vacuum. 

‍

Every individual in your family; whether it's your kids, whether it's you, whether it's your spouse. Whoever it is that lives in your household, is both shaped by the other family members and shapes family members. We both are shaped by and we exert influence over the other people in our lives. 

‍

This is the crucible of healthy boundaries. Families are a collection of individuals. And there are two things that go on in those early formative years, as part of a family, whatever your family look like. The first word is interoception. Interoception is all the perceptions, noise, and sensations inside of you, that you have to learn how to make sense of. It's the cues your body is sending. It's your fight/flight response in your nervous system. As a baby it was hunger; hunger is rooted in interoception. 

‍

How do you know you're hungry if you're not connected to your digestive system, and the signals it's sending to your brain? And that makes you cry as a baby, that's interoception and it also gets at our emotional cues. And then there's exteroception. Exteroception is how we take in data from the surrounding world, through our five senses. Through what we see, feel, taste, smell, and touch, both are important. 

‍

We need to attend to what's happening inside our bodies, inside ourselves. And we need to be able to read the cues that are coming to us from the people around us. And a lot of us, I talk about this in The Best of You, and I think, especially, women are over-conditioned toward exteroception, we read the room. We read the room. We know what's going on with everybody around us far before we know what's going on inside our own selves, both matter. And the family is the crucible for this.

‍

And, again, getting back to Bowen, he emphasized the importance of boundaries as a way to create health. As we exist both as individuals and as part of a collective, it's both. And boundaries are the key to that, and this is what I want you to understand about boundaries.

‍

So often in our current vernacular, I hear boundaries being talked about as this negative thing. "I need boundaries" is a way of saying, "I need to get that person out of my life."

‍

"I need more space from that person."

‍

"I need more distance from that person."

‍

Now that may well be true, but the reality of boundaries is they're not negative. We need boundaries in all of our relationships. We need boundaries because we exist both as unique selves and as individuals. There is no one on this earth; this is both the good news and the frustrating news of existence. There is no one, on this earth, who is exactly like you. Who will see experience, feel, and understand the world exactly as you do. You are a unique individual and that's beautiful. You are as unique as every snowflake. God made every single one of us completely unique. We have a completely unique experience of the world around us. 

‍

If you've heard that phrase people will say "No two children grow up in the same family." And it's true., everybody's perception of their family is a little bit different because we're all just so unique. And we're processing all that data, both internally and externally, in slightly different ways. This is our individual selfhood. This is what I talk about in The Best of You. 

‍

This is not a bad thing and, simultaneously, we are a bunch of selves that are intrinsically connected with a bunch of other-selves. We do not exist in isolation. We do not thrive in isolation. We need other people. Other people influence who we become. 

‍

And, so, we are also part of a whole, we are part of a collective, and boundaries are what help us navigate that. Boundaries help me understand where I end and you begin. Your emotions are not my emotions. You do not read my mind. You may not even understand how I feel or what I think, and that does not make you a bad person. It makes you a different person. We are different. We are differentiated from each other. And, again, this is both the joy and sometimes the frustration of relationships. 

‍

I mean, wouldn't it be nice if someone just completely stepped inside your own skin and saw the world as you did? But in a way, also, it wouldn't be nice, it's going to be boring. The reality is there's beauty in the different parts. There's beauty in the whole, in the harmony, in our relationships with other people. Your perspective helps me understand my perspective. 

‍

Even our differences; even where you see something slightly in a different way than I do. When we have that conversation it's like "I don't see it exactly as you do, but that was helpful to me because now I understand my own perspective a little bit better. And, now, I hope you understand your perspective a little bit better." This is Psych 101. This is foundational. And when you think about all these problems we're having in our world today. 

‍

It all gets back to this fundamental reality that there's a me, there's a you, and we are different. We have different perspectives. We have different experiences. 

‍

We have different lived realities. We have different ways of interpreting both our internal world and the cues that are coming at us from our external world. And the beauty of a relationship is we need each other to arrive at increasing degrees of truth, of reality. 

‍

I do not have the full take on truth, on what is real. I need your perspective to help me enlarge my perspective. You need my perspective to help you enlarge your perspective. This is the beauty of relationships. We need to be firmly rooted in our own perspective and how we are seeing the world, and confident enough in that to understand I also need to hear your perspective. Your perspective is going to help enhance mine. 

‍

It's not going to take me over; it's going to help me see the truth, and to see reality, and to see what's going on more realistically, more honestly, more accurately. This is the way God made us, and boundaries are what help us delineate those differences.

‍

And this comes from the work of Bowen. Bowen believed that healthy boundaries are essential for individuals to develop both a clear sense of self and to avoid getting caught up in what psychologists call enmeshment. Which means, "I lose track of myself and, so, I just take on your identity."

‍

And we see this happening in relationships. When you don't have a strong sense of self, you start to just like what other people like. There's a movie, from the '90s, with Julia Roberts, it's called Runaway Bride and you see this played out in that movie. Where she just takes on the identity of all her different fiancé. And then she ends up getting to the altar and she freaks out because she's like, "I don't even know who I am; I've just taken on your identity." And it's a funny, cute romcom, but the truth is it happens to us. If we don't have a sense of ourselves. 

‍

We just take on the identities of the people around us. And then the other extreme is also true, where we just are so full of our own perspective. This is where we get into narcissism or counter-dependent, where we don't care what anybody else thinks. We just don't care because it's just all about me. Neither of those extremes is healthy.

‍

Healthy boundaries help us delineate relationships where you get to be you, I get to be me. And then together we get to negotiate a way forward that's more beautiful, that's more whole. That gives us, together, a combined, a shared experience of reality that's actually more complete.

‍

So in this work of setting healthy, internal boundaries with emotions, with parts of ourselves, we're really getting into this interoception. And, again, so many of the people I see, especially women, this is where we struggle. The internal life, the contents of our own souls are foreign to us in so many ways. We don't know how to read the cues that are coming to us from inside our own souls. So this work of establishing internal boundaries is exactly the same as that of external family. It's this family of parts that you have inside of you. 

‍

And, oftentimes, emotions are the best first line of how we begin to understand we have a part of us. It's like, "Oh, there's that anger. There's that sadness that I can't shake. There's that fear." These are connected to parts of us. 

They're our first window, our lived experience, of these parts of us that we need to begin to get to know so that we can differentiate from these parts of us. They are not all of who we are and establish these healthy boundaries. 

‍

So these different emotions can exist within healthy boundary lines, within our souls, because we need these emotions. None of them is bad. We need them, but we need to be able to navigate through them. So that they stay within healthy boundary lines, within our souls.

‍

I want to just pause here and remind you of this beautiful truth, that God is the originator of boundaries. And just to underscore this idea that healthy boundaries are not a negative, they're not a bad thing. Sometimes they're frustrating and it's hard work, both internally it's hard work, and externally it's hard work. But if you think about the creation story, the very first thing that God did was to establish boundary lines. He delineated day from night, land from the sea. He engaged in the process of naming and differentiating different things, one from the other.

‍

These boundary lines are part of the created order. They're pre-fall, if you will. There's this beautiful harmony, this order, that God creates out of chaos. And this is exactly the same thing that happens in our families, in our relationships, we create order out of chaos. And it's the same thing that happens inside our souls. We begin to create order out of chaos, by participating in this work of naming and delineating the parts of our soul. 

‍

And just think about it, I want to cast a vision here for a second. What an amazing feeling it is if you've glimpsed this, even, in your family, in your marriage, in your friendships, where the boundary lines fall in pleasant places. Where everybody involved is thriving as individuals and as part of the collective. Where as an individual, who you are, your identity, your talents, and your preferences are honored. And you are also deeply invested in honoring the talents, preferences, opinions, and needs, of the people around you.

‍

It's such a beautiful feeling. You have those glimpses in your family when everybody is okay. And they're just being their beautiful, individual selves and at peace with each other simultaneously. This is the hope, this is the design, and we have lots of ruptures in our families, even, in the healthiest of families. The goal is not perfection. 

‍

But when you get that glimpse of, "Oh, this is so cool when it works." When we're just in sync together. When we're all just thriving, this is a picture of healthy boundary lines. And it's the same inside your own soul. Where it's not the absence of some of these emotions, but there's just this being at peace with. 

‍

There's being at peace with the different parts of yourself and you're just thriving, and you're good, and you're at peace. And it's not because you're just happy, there's other emotions involved there. And you're also at peace with the different parts of yourself, with the different parts of your own story. Even with some of the hard parts of what's happening in your life. This is the work of naming. This is the work of healthy boundaries for your soul.

‍

Let's get into fear and anxiety. These are two of the most common emotions. In fact, fear is the most common emotion mentioned in the Bible. Which is very interesting because a lot of folks write to me and feel like they've been shamed for feelings of fear. 

That there's a lot in the Bible that says it's wrong to feel fear, which I'm going to debunk today in this episode. And then we get at anxiety, which is a cousin of fear, but they're not exactly the same thing. 

‍

Anxiety is the most commonly reported mental health concern globally. Globally. It's just so common. So many people deal with anxiety and we don't really want to feel anxious. These are not emotions we want to have. And, yet, I would maintain, I would set forth before you today, that these are part of our God-given design, they're not bad.

‍

The goal is not to eradicate all anxiety and fear, at least, on this side of heaven. We need these emotions to survive. We want to get them within healthy boundary lines. Let's start with anxiety. Anxiety is a normal and often healthy emotion. Everyone experiences it, at some point in their life. It's a feeling of worry or unease about something. It can become intense, or excessive, or maybe long-lasting. 

‍

It might start to interfere with your day-to-day activities. That's when we start to talk about an anxiety disorder, where if for a prolonged period of time beyond what is considered quote-unquote "Normal". Your anxiety is inhibiting your day-to-day functioning. You might need to get on medication. You might need specific therapeutic techniques. This is very common, it can happen for a wide variety of reasons. I'm not going to go into that today. But at its baseline, anxiety is actually a normal emotion that all humans experience.

‍

It helps keep us safe. There are things in the world about which we should be a little bit anxious or even a lot anxious. Same as sadness. There are things in the world about which we should be sad. There are things in the world about which we should be angry. 

‍

Anxiety is no different. It gets problematic when it gets extreme and it starts to take us over. But in a healthy amount, within healthy boundary lines, anxiety can signal the presence of a real fear that needs your attention. It can inform you when you are overwhelmed, when your mind or your body is overwhelmed. It can protect you by warning you about things that might go wrong. It can alert you to danger. It can remind you that you are tender, that you are a sensitive soul, and that you are not a machine. That you are a human being.

‍

Anxiety tends to be future-oriented and creative. It tends to think up all things for you to worry about. Things that may or may not actually have a bearing on your current reality. It tends to try to protect you, anxiety is a protector. When we talked about those managers, firefighters, and exiles, anxiety tends to be a manager that's trying to protect you. It's trying to keep you safe. 

‍

And, oftentimes, when it gets extreme it can keep you from facing the real fear, that actually needs your caring and can be almost a distraction, by stirring up all this worry about things that don't really need your attention, don't really need your worry. And keeping you from the actual fear, the vulnerability, that actually does need your attention. 

‍

So anxiety functions as a protector. Fear, on the other hand, comes in as that exiled vulnerability. Fear tends to be focused on a specific present concern. Anxiety tends to step in when we have an untended fear. 

‍

So I want you to think about that, for a second. An example I like to give about anxiety is that it just tends to be all these floating distractions. It's like, "This could happen." And it's like that game of whack-a-mole at the fair. It's like, "This could go wrong." It's just all this stuff going on in your mind. 

And, sure, any one of those things could go wrong, but it's completely missing the point of the root of the issue, almost, always. Which is one of these basic primal fears, which tend to be along the lines of, "I'm going to be rejected."

"I'm going to be abandoned."

‍

"I'm going to fail."

‍

"I'm going to make a fool of myself."

‍

"I'm going to be alone."

‍

These existential fears are usually at the root when all that anxiety kicks up. All that internal chatter, "What if?"

‍

"What if I'm going to be alone?"

‍

"What if nobody's going to love me?"

‍

"What if I fail?"

‍

"What if the floor falls out underneath me and everything falls apart?" Which is a fear of losing control. There's a lot of that underneath anxiety. And it's fascinating, to me, that distinction that so often all of that worry really goes right back to one of these really basic existential fears. Of "I'm going to make a fool of myself."

‍

"I'm going to be alone."

‍

"I'm going to be rejected."

‍

"I'm going to be abandoned."

‍

"The floor is going to fall out."

‍

"I'm going to just spin out, no one will be there."

‍

And, so, much of this goes back to attachment wounds. To our childhood, to being made fun of. To the feeling of being alone, when someone did leave us. So much of these very deep-rooted fears go all the way back there. And when we can get to the root of them and go, "What is really the worst thing that's going to happen? Well, somebody might not like me."

‍

"Well, someone might walk away from me."

‍

"The ceiling may fall, right?"

‍

"The worst case might happen. I might lose someone to something." And here's the thing when we can get to the root of the fear and go, "That might happen." It's not brainwashing yourself. It's not telling yourself those things might not happen. Sometimes the hard stuff happens. Listen, I've been a therapist for a long time. I've also been a human for a long time. Sometimes the hard stuff happens, I'm not going to try to tell you otherwise. But what I will tell you is when you get to the root of that fear and you go, "That hard thing happens, I'm not alone."

‍

And you can start to face that fear. And you can start to resource that fear. And you can start to get support for that fear. And, then, you can start to be brave. We can't be brave if we don't have fear. We're not human machines, we're human beings. 

‍

When we get to the root of our fear, there's an opportunity to go, "What do I need to be brave? What support do I need? What assistance do I need? What reassurance do I need from God, from the people around me? What help do I need to ask for, to be brave in this situation?"

‍

Because this situation is kicking up all my anxiety. My anxiety is just telling me, "Red alert. Do not go there, this is only going to end badly. All these things are going to happen." But I need to do this hard thing, whatever it is. 

‍

And, so, then, you get to the root of your fear, which is vulnerability, "I am terrified, I'm going to lose everybody I love if I do this brave thing."

‍

"I am terrified, I'm going to make a complete fool of myself. I will be a complete failure."

‍

Whatever the fear is, "I'll fall apart." Anxiety often thinks it's keeping us together. Because anxiety is activating your nervous system, which keeps you in that fight mode, so it's energizing. And it's like if your anxiety steps back, just a little bit. If you get just a little bit of distance from it. You don't understand that feeling of not having that activated nervous system, that can feel very foreign, initially. And that's another fear that anxious protectors will have.

‍

"Who will you be without me?" Anxiety will say, "I've been your best friend since you were very young. I've been there for you." And it's not untrue, and that's why we want to extend compassion and befriend these protectors. They have worked hard to help us survive. 

‍

And, so, I'm already getting into the five steps here. But when you begin to focus and name anxiety, "There is a part of me that is anxious about this." And you differentiate from it, and you name that. It's just creating this cacophony inside of all the things that could go wrong and it's not helping me anymore. 

‍

And you begin to focus on it, and you name it, and you sense where it is in your body, you get an image of it. And, then, you befriend it and you thank it. And you say, "Man, anxiety, you have been trying to help me all these years. You've been trying to be a friend to me." And, so, you don't shame yourself for it, but you differentiate from it.

‍

And you say, "You know what, anxiety, I need to ask you to take a step back." And then you find out, "What are you afraid will happen, anxiety, if you were to take a step back?"

‍

And you'll sense a sense of, "Well, what will I do? Anxiety is how I show up in the world. It's how I protect myself. It's who I am."

‍

What if it's not? What if you could get just a little bit of space from your anxiety, and tap into that spirit-led place inside of you and discover other parts of you? Oftentimes, there's an angry part of you that is much more equipped to take brave action. Anger's a little bit braver than anxiety. Sometimes there's a part of you that needs to grieve. And then, also, there's this fearful exile that simply needs your presence, not all your scenario planning.

‍

That simply needs you to say, "It's okay to be afraid. You're frightened, it's okay this is scary. But let's make it a little bit scary. Let's resource ourselves compassionately. Let's get ourselves the help that we need, so we move this into a little bit of afraid versus giant afraid. So that we can actually take some brave action." 

‍

It takes fear to have courage, and our anxiety is a little bit nervous about that. If it keeps us distracted, if it keeps us just worried, we may not actually get to that place of grounded courage. That says, "This is a little bit scary and I can be brave. I can be brave." And when anxiety is held within these healthy boundary lines, it'll let you do that. It'll be like, "Okay, it makes me a little bit nervous. I'm not sure I like this but okay." 

‍

It doesn't necessarily go away altogether. And I want you to hear me say that fear and anxiety don't, necessarily, go away altogether. We need them to survive. But when they're contained within healthy boundary lines. And the anxiety dials it down just a little bit and says, "Okay, I'll stop just throwing out at you all these landmines. All these things that I'm worried about."

‍

Take a deep breath anxiety is rooted in the nervous system. We've got to take that deep breath and calm the nervous system. We don't analyze our way out of anxiety, typically, that just adds more fuel to the fire. Instead, we have to breathe our way through anxiety. We have to take deep breaths. We have to ground ourselves in our body. We have to become more aware of our physical surroundings.

‍

And, then, we come into contact with that vulnerability inside that says, "Yes, I'm afraid. I am afraid this is going to be hard. This is going to be scary. This person might not like this. This is going to feel foreign to me. This is uncomfortable to me. This is new for me, I don't usually do this, but I'm going to be brave."

‍

And suddenly we're tapped into that calm, clear place inside where fear is there and, even, anxiety is still there a little bit. We can still feel its energy fluttering off to the side, but we're tapped into our God-given selves. We're tapped into the best of who we are, and we start to lead ourselves through it. And we start to take one brave step at a time. And we've got some healthy boundary lines. We've dialed down our anxiety to a dull roar. It might still be there, but it's no longer taken us over.

‍

We've connected with the fearful part of us. We've honored it. We've even validated it, yes, it is scary, It is scary to do this brave thing. To say no to this relationship. 

To take on this new project that you're terrified to take on. You're not sure if you can do it. You're afraid you'll fail, you'll just completely be annihilated. These fears are so existential, "We'll be alone."

‍

"No one will ever love us." We validate that part of us. 

We say, "It's okay, I see you. God sees you. We're here, it's okay. Put your hand over your heart. All right, let's take it one brave step at a time." And suddenly you're leading yourself, those parts of you don't need to go away. They do need to learn to let you lead them, not the other way around. 

‍

I want to touch briefly on fear in the Bible. I hear from people almost every day, struggling with the fact that they felt shame about their fear. Shame about their anxiety. And I just want to be really clear that this is not a biblical understanding of either fear or anxiety. 

‍

In fact, we see fear all over the Bible. Some of the greatest heroes of our faith were very fearful, were very anxious. Moses is probably the one that is the most common. You just see a lot of anxiety, a lot of fearfulness, in Moses. He didn't want to step up and lead when God called him to do it. He was fearful.

‍

Some people think when he talked about having a speech impediment, that he may, in fact,  have had a stutter. That he may have had a hard time getting his words out. Maybe he had a fear of public speaking, I don't know. 

‍

But what I do know is that he was fearful and God didn't shame him for that. God honored that it was real, it was true, and He named it. God brought him Aaron and He said, "I'm going to resource you. I'm going to get you support. I'm not going to ask you to do this alone." And He brought him, Aaron, his brother. And He said, "Aaron's going to help you." And there's a lesson there for us that we don't need to feel shame in our fear.

‍

When Jesus shows up with people and says, "Do not be afraid." It's not a shaming thing. It's not a "What's wrong with you? Why are you fearful?"

‍

It's a, "I see your fear and I'm here with you. I see your fear, I get it. I see it, let's name it, let's call it out. There's fear here and I'm with you." There's a reassurance. I love this, where Jesus says to His followers in Luke chapter 12, "I'm speaking to you as dear friends, do not be bluffed into silence or insincerity by the threats of religious bullies. True, they can kill you." He's not trying to brainwash them. 

‍

"Yes, they can hurt you, sure, but then what can they do?" There's nothing they can do to your soul, your core being.

‍

"Don't be intimidated by all this bully talk." He says, "You are worth more than a million canaries." In verses six through seven. "Don't be afraid of missing out you're my dearest friends. The Father wants to give you the very kingdom itself." Verse 32.

‍

Jesus assumes that His followers will be frightened by very real threats in the world around them. That they might be intimidated by bullies. That they might be fearful of going against the crowd, of losing people, of being rejected. These were real fears. 

‍

He didn't try to pretend like they weren't. He brings their fear out into the open, He names it. And when we name without shame, fear has a way of losing its power, same with anxiety. When we name without shame, "Yes, there you are, anxiety, I see you there. I'm going to take some deep breaths. I'm going to ground myself. I'm going to ask for some support. I'm not going to shame myself for this."

‍

When we shame ourselves for things, it kicks up even more tension, even more chaos, inside our souls. When we name, we start to tame. That's what Dan Siegel says "To name is to tame." It helps bring relief to these parts of us that gets so anxious, so fearful, and so worked up.

‍

So here we're going to go through the five steps. If you deal with a lot of anxiety, a lot of worry, whatever degree it is focusing on it simply means to name it. This is what it is; naming without shame. When you focus and you befriend, you're simply saying, "Yes, this is a part of me. A part of me worries a lot. A part of me feels anxious a lot." 

‍

I just named that. I just bless that part of me. "You know what, sometimes I don't like it. And you know what, I'm going to forgive myself for that, for the ways I've beat myself up for that. Because you know what? This is also a beautiful part of me. This is a part of me that's sensitive. 

‍

This is a part of me that wants to be prepared. This is a part of me that likes to plan ahead. That likes to be equipped to deal with uncertainty. This is a beautiful part of me." And, yes, sometimes, does it get out of hand? Yes. Yes, it does and that's okay, that's when we just name it to tame it. Not to shame it. We just name it to say, "Oh, yes, there you are, old friend, worry, old friend, anxiety, I see that you've flared up."

‍

That's a cue; what are we afraid of here? And then name the fear; "I'm afraid I don't have what it takes."

‍

"I'm afraid I'm not good enough."

‍

"I'm afraid I'm going to be alone."

‍

"I'm afraid they're all going to hate me."

‍

"I'm afraid I'm going to be a fool." Let's just name it; "You can be here too." And you start to just name the different parts of your soul, and they start to soften, they start to relax.

‍

Again, this isn't magic, sometimes this can take years. If you've had years of struggling with anxiety, with fear, this doesn't just happen overnight. But you start to focus and you befriend, and you just bless these parts of you. You just bless them, God sees them. God does not shame you for them, and then you invite God in. And you say, "Hey, God, here we are again, here's that anxiety."

‍

Not to magically take it away. We can pray from that anxious part of us. Those are these Hail Mary prayers where we're like, "God, please, please, please." And almost it's activating to your nervous system. "God, please, take this anxiety away." We're praying from that anxious part of us. This is a little different; when we name we befriend, and we say, "There it is."

‍

And, then, we get a little distance from. And, then, we say, "God, you see that anxiety. Help me take a deep breath and connect to that deep place inside where the Holy Spirit lives. 

Where there's calmness in my nervous system. Where I'm embodied. Where I have feet on the ground. Where I am in touch with the body you gave me. Where maybe there's another person here who reminds me, 'I'm okay.'"

‍

This becomes a form of prayer. It's a deep breath prayer of "You see the anxiety, too, God, and you don't shame me for it. 

You help me resource myself through it in, sometimes, very practical, concrete ways." And then we unburden, what are some of these old messages that the fear underneath the anxiety still tells us?

‍

Things like, "I'm just not worthy; I'm not good enough."

‍

"I'm going to be alone; I'm going to be abandoned."

‍

"No one will ever want to be with me."

‍

"I'm going to be a fool."

‍

"No one's ever going to love me."

‍

"This is just all of who I am."

‍

These are some of those fears. "I'll just always be this way." We just name them, again, not to fix them, not to rationalize our way out of them. But to just name them and then unburden them. What if? And this is where that beautiful  what-if question comes in, "What if I am worthy?"

‍

"What if God does love me, no matter what?"

‍

"What if, even, if someone leaves, I'll be okay?"

‍

"What if I'm stronger than I think?"

‍

"What if I'm more courageous than parts of me believe?"

‍

"What if I'm more anchored in goodness, in truth, in beauty, in God's kindness, than I really feel?"

‍

"What if it's really going to be okay?"

‍

"What if I'm not alone?" What if? You don't even have to convince yourself of it at this point. Just what if? This is how you begin to unburden.

‍

"What if that part of me that, so long ago, started to believe that no one would ever bother with me? That people will always leave me. What if that part of me could unburden that belief, find freedom, and find the healing that that's not true? And what if I was worth people staying? And what if I'm still worth people staying?"

‍

And you know what, even if they don't stay, in this case, there will be someone who will stay. There will be. There will be someone who will stay. This is the way we start to unburden, and we get to the root of that fear. It's brave to face these fears. It's so brave. And don't do this work alone. If you've been dealing with a lot, and you've been holding a lot in, don't do this work alone. Get someone to come alongside you, a therapist, a coach, a spiritual director, a small group, a dear friend. But just get to the root of that fear and just name it. 

‍

And here's the thing, it may not go away entirely, but you're going to resource it. You're going to reintegrate that fear and say, "Guess what, fear? Now you get to be a part of me that reminds me that I need support. I need resourcing. This thing that's hard for me to do is scary. 

‍

It's hard for me to get up on a stage and speak to a room full of people. And because it's hard for me and because I've been wounded there before. Because someone made fun of me in the past, I'm going to get you support, fearful part of me. I'm not going to make you do it alone, I see you. And I'm going to ask someone for help. And I'm going to learn what I need to help you stay calm when I go do this brave thing.

‍

I need to say no to this person. I need to break off this relationship. And it's really scary to a part of me because it brings up all my old attachment wounds and I feel like they're going to leave me. But you know what, fearful part of me, I see you in that and I'm not going to shame you for that. And I'm going to get you support for that. 

‍

And, so, guess what, we're going to come up with a plan; where I'm going to talk to my therapist before I schedule that breakup. So I get you the support you need. I'm going to talk to that friend right before and right after that breakup or I'm going to journal right before and just let you fly free with all of your fears. And I'm going to honor and witness all of your fears, and I'm going to let you have your say.

‍

And then we're going to close the journal. And then I'm going to pick up the phone and make that hard call, and we're going to do it together. We're going to do it together. So you don't have to go away, but I'm not going to let you dictate the decision."

‍

Do you see how this starts to become the healthy boundary lines inside your own soul? You begin to create more spaciousness inside for your spirit-led self, for the best of you. For this God created you to start to kick in and lead you in freedom, and in truth.

‍

This is a process of internal reconciliation. You're reconciling with parts of yourself. You're no longer at war with your anxiety, at war with your fear. You're not trying to get these parts of you to go away or just leave you. Instead, you're reconciling yourself to them.

‍

You're going, "This is a part of me. This is a part of my story. And I'm going to be reconciled to the fact that I'm someone who sometimes deals with some anxiety, deals with some worry. I'm someone who has these fears from time to time. I'm reconciled to that. I'm at peace with that." Which doesn't mean resignation; it means I'm at peace with that. Which means I can lead myself through it with courage. I can lead myself through it with courage. 

‍

These parts of me are no longer my enemies. Instead, they're my cues; "Oh, my goodness, I've got to ground myself in my body. With anxiety in particular, I've got to take some deep breaths. I've got to slow things down, and I've got to be brave. I've got to be brave when it comes to facing this fear."

‍

And I love this quote from Howard Thurman, who was a mentor to Martin Luther King, Jr., and he said it this way about reconciliation with the parts of ourselves. He said, "The wildness is gentle doubt of a personality at war with itself."

‍

When we stop being at war with ourselves and we start to reconcile with these parts of ourselves. And just name them, and bless them, and befriend them. 

And name them before God and invite God to be with them. Not to get God to magically make them go away, but to let God help us lead them. We start to gentle our way out of the wildness, out of the chaos, and we start to know ourselves. We start to understand ourselves, and we start to say, "Okay, this is a fear that I have."

‍

Listen, just recently, I got a question from one of you about a fear of public speaking. And I thought to myself, "Well, isn't that ironic?" I have that fear and I publicly speak all the time, and it kicks up anxiety inside of me. It doesn't go away. But I've learned over time what resources I need to help me be brave when I do it. 

‍

And it is a delight and a joy to honor that fearful part of me. And not be at war with it and say, "Oh, you get to be here what do we need? Here's what we need before, and here's what we need after. And I am so proud of you that you showed up so bravely to let me do that hard thing." And suddenly I'm at peace with myself. I'm not trying to get rid of these parts of me that also make me who I am, and they make you who you are. 

‍

If you have these fears of getting up in front of other people. These fears of saying no to other people. These fears of trying something new; that's a little bit out of your comfort zone, don't eradicate that part of you, bless it. And see what it needs to help you be brave. We don't get these opportunities to be brave, to be so proud of ourselves if we don't first honor the fear.

‍

Do you ever feel like a part of your soul is trapped in the past, holding you back from fully embracing the present and moving forward? Pain, fear, worry, or even bitterness can weigh heavy on our hearts and minds. This is a common experience for all of us at times. In today's episode, I guide you through a 5 step process of healing and growth. We'll discuss how to mend the parts of your soul that are causing you distress.

‍

Here's what we cover:

1. 5 Steps to healing painful emotions

2. How to overcome criticism, shame, and judgment

3. 4 Questions to grow in self-discovery

4. A surprising way to pray throughout the day

5. Why parts of us struggle to experience God's love

Remember, this journey is a process, not a one-time event. With the right tools and guidance, you can learn to make peace with the parts of yourself.

Be sure to pick up your 3 free Boundaries for Your Soul resources here.

‍

Thanks to our sponsors:

• This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp-- Go to www.betterhelp.com/bestofyou and use code BESTOFYOU for 10% off your first month!
• Organifi- Go to www.organifi.com/bestofyou and use code BESTOFYOU for 20% off your order today.
• Brooklien-- Go to Brooklinen.com today and use code BESTOFYOU to save!

Music by Andy Luiten/Sound editing by Kelly Kramarik

While Dr. Cook is a counselor, the content of this podcast and any of the products provided by Dr. Cook are not specific counseling advice nor are they a substitute for individual counseling. The content and products provided on this podcast are for informational purposes only.

‍

Resources

• Get 46% off Boundaries for Your Soul & The Best of You here.‍
• Inside Out Movie Trailer
• IFS Institute
• Find a Christian IFS Therapist
• Episode 39: Boundaries for Your Soul—How to Navigate Your Overwhelming Thoughts & Feelings
• "A part of you was left behind very early in your life: the part that never felt completely received. It is full of fears. Meanwhile, you grew up with many survival skills. But you want yourself to be one." -Henri Nouwen, The Inner Voice of Love
• Anatomy of the Soul, by Dr. Curt Thompson
• Mindsight, by Dr. Dan Siegel
• Matthew 11:28-30
• Luke 15:4
• Resources for support

‍

Transcript

‍

Alison: So last week, in episode 39, I walked you through a map of the soul. And we talked about how parts of the soul, any one of these three categories, whether it's your manager parts that won't stop working, won't stop pleasing, won't stop perfecting. Or if it's your firefighter parts that won't stop shutting down or numbing. 

‍

Or if it's these exiled parts, these more painful emotions right. If you're noticing in any one of these categories and don't worry too much about the technical terms. 

‍

We talked about what happens when any one part of you gets out of balance. When any one part of you starts to take you over in a way that is leading to behaviors, or feelings, or relationship patterns that aren't good for you. 

‍

And, so, today, I'm going to walk you through a five-step process of getting curious about the parts of your soul. This is a way of becoming your own inner detective. And just as you care for your own children, if you have children. Where sometimes you have to just really pay attention. You go, "There's something going on with my child. I don't really understand what it is, but they're not behaving as they usually do or they seem off emotionally."

‍

And you have to become a detective; you have to start paying attention, asking questions, showing curiosity. You don't want your child to shut you out or push you away if you go in too hard, especially if they're older. If you're parenting young adult children, you have to be really tenuous in how you get curious about behaviors or emotions that you see that are concerning to you. But you just start paying attention, and you're trying to find your way in. You're trying to get to the root of what's going on. And it's the same process inside your own soul. 

‍

These parts of you need you to attune to them just as your children, in your real life, need your attunement. And, so, there are two keywords I want you to think about, as we walk through these five steps today. 

‍

Number one is getting curious. Showing curiosity toward yourself, and it's curiosity versus criticism. "I wonder why I just lashed out at that person."

‍

"I wonder what's going on, that I'm still feeling the pain of that interaction."

‍

"I wonder what causes me to always say yes when what I really want to say is, 'No, thank you'". Do you hear the tone of that curiosity? Versus how we typically talk to ourselves which is, "What is wrong with me? I'm so stupid."

‍

Or "Why did I just do that again?" And you can almost feel the tension when you start to come down on yourself. Your whole body gets tense, and your nervous system, then, gets activated. But when you show curiosity. It's asking a question; "I'm curious, I wonder what happened? There's no shame, it is what it is. I may have to go back and apologize, sure. But really, I'm just curious about what was going on inside of me." It's such a powerful way to be with yourself. 

‍

And then the second word is Compassion. To show compassion toward yourself. Sometimes that can be a little harder for people, especially, if you're doing things or behaving in ways or feeling things you wish that you didn't. It's like, "Really, I'm supposed to be compassionate toward myself?" But the truth is this we heal in the context of compassion, not in the context of criticism, shame, and self-judgment. 

And, so, those are two words I want you to think about throughout this episode. Get curious about what you notice inside yourself. Even as I'm talking, even as you're listening to this episode, just get curious. And also consider showing yourself compassion. 

‍

Here are the five steps. These are based, again, on that model of therapy called the Internal Family Systems Model of Therapy. They're a condensed, consolidated version that my co-author Kimberly Miller and I came up with for our book Boundaries for Your Soul, number one is focus. Now, this may sound counterintuitive to most of you. "Why would I want to focus on a negative or a painful emotion? Don't I want to not focus on it?" 

‍

But here's the thing, when you focus on an emotion, an unwanted feeling, a negative thought, about somebody else or about yourself. What you're doing is what psychologists call differentiating from it. When you become aware of an emotion and you name it, it's almost as if you bring it out in front of you. You get some distance from it. Instead of that emotion just taking you over and being what you feel. 

‍

So if you're noticing envy, for example, it's an uncomfortable feeling. And the minute you go, "Oh, my gosh, I'm dealing with envy right now. I don't like it, but that's what that is." You've just named it, and you've got a little distance from it. 

‍

When you differentiate from an emotion, you move into a different part of your brain. There's an actual, really, interesting neuroscience to this. Where your prefrontal cortex comes online and you begin to observe the emotion that you're having. So suddenly you're in two parts of your brain. You're not just in your amygdala, having all the feelings without that prefrontal cortex online to observe it. 

‍

So suddenly you're in two parts of your brain. You're observing, you're witnessing the emotion you're having. "Oh, my gosh, I'm angry." But that anger is now out in front of you, it's not taking you over. 

‍

"I think I'm sad. There's a little bit of loneliness there." Again, notice that curiosity, "I am aware that this thing is going on." Suddenly, it's inside of your conscious awareness, which is such a healthier place to be when it comes to your emotions. 

‍

When you're not aware that you're having that feeling, those emotions are operating. They're just operating outside of your conscious awareness. And who knows what you're going to do out of that emotion because they're there, but you're not in charge of them. But the minute you focus on the emotion. You name it, you bring it out in front of you. You might write it down, you might visualize it, and that's part of that guided audio reflection. 

‍

If you download that from my website, it's a process of sometimes people visualize the emotion, whatever it is. Whether you just name it, or write it down, you are becoming aware of it. And that awareness is key, suddenly, you're in charge of that emotion, not the other way around. You can see it more clearly. 

‍

When you focus on a painful emotion or a negative thought and get curious about it, you can give that part of you the leadership, the wisdom, or the care that it needs. And if you think about a doctor or a surgeon who's working to heal a wound. How can she heal that wound, that's acting out in some way, or causing pain in some way, without first finding it, focusing on it, and seeing it clearly? 

‍

So this step of focusing, not to hyper-focus on it, but to put your attention on that uncomfortable, that negative emotion, or that thought that's causing you frustration. "Oh, that's what that is." We're just naming it, no shame, no judgment, just naming. "I cannot stop comparing myself."

‍

"I am worried. Worry has really gotten the best of me."

‍

"I'm angry. Anger is really close to me right now." This is all part of focusing. It's naming without shame the emotion or the thought that you're having. Now, if you're having trouble naming or focusing on the thought, or the feeling that's causing you a problem, or that's trying to get your attention, here are some questions to help you. 

‍

"Where am I feeling this emotion in my body?" For example, do you notice your mind feeling like it's going to explode? Or do you notice tension in your body? Do you notice it in your heart? Like your heart is aching. Do you notice it like a pit in your stomach? Just getting a cue of how you're experiencing this emotion or thought in your body, can help you identify it better. 

‍

Another question you can ask yourself is, "If this was an image, what would it look like?" For example, you might feel it's just like fire coming out of your brain. That's how I feel when I'm angry, it's just like my head feels on fire. Or you might notice swirling, spinning thoughts, just going, going, going. Like a tick, tick, tick that you can't stop. And that's a form of worry or a form of overthinking. 

‍

You might notice yourself just feeling blank inside, like a blank wall or a brick wall. There are all sorts of ways that God has gifted us with imagination. And this is where our right brain, creativity kicks in to help us understand what's happening in our hearts, minds, and bodies. 

‍

And, so, if you have that sense of the way that you experience that emotion, or that thought as an image, it's a super helpful way to get clearer about it. This is how God made us. We're creative, we're imaginative beings. And, so, don't shy away from using your imagination to capture how you feel. 

‍

Another way is to think, "Is there a thought or a belief that you can focus on?" So instead of it being an emotion or a feeling in your body, is there a word, or a thought, or a belief that is taking you over? Maybe it's a negative opinion about somebody else. Maybe it's your own inner critic that has a very clear phrase that it says to you, to try to beat you up or get you to do what it feels like you should do. 

‍

And then as you're focusing, consider if this is a familiar emotion. Has it been with you for a long time? Often these parts of us go all the way back. We store past events and our responses to them, our emotional responses, our physiological responses to them, in our implicit memory. 

And, so, you may not be consciously aware of why you are responding the way you are, in this current situation. But it's possible that a part of you is stuck in the past, and this situation is taking you back to an old memory, almost, outside of your conscious awareness. 

‍

And, so, it's very familiar to you. You're like, "Oh, yes, this is how I used to feel in 6th grade when this thing would happen." And that's great information to understand this part of you better. Becoming more aware of your thoughts and feelings is a skill you can practice every day. It leads to what psychologists call emotional regulation. As you can acknowledge and name what you feel, just as simple as "I feel angry."

‍

"I feel jealous."

‍

"I feel sad." Just that act of naming begins to soothe the brain's limbic system, and it helps you gain access to other regions of the brain. You can check out Dr. Curt Thompson's work in The Anatomy of the Soul or Dr. Dan Siegel's work in Mindsight if you're interested in the neuroscience of this. 

‍

But just naming what you're feeling and beginning to pay attention to it without shame, in and of itself can bring some relief. This is a practice. 

‍

Step number two is Befriend, you're going to befriend this part of you. This is the step that is really hard for some people, especially, if you have a really active inner critic. Because often when you give these parts of yourself this attention, you will notice that you don't like them. "I don't like that part of me."

‍

"I don't like feeling that way."

‍

"I wish I didn't have that."

‍

And, so, we have to address this internal resistance because, as we talked about, we don't heal in the context of criticism, including inside our own souls. So as you focus on this emotion, this thought, this part of you that you're working with. Ask yourself how am I feeling toward it. And if you notice that there's a lot of criticism, a lot of inner clamor, like, "Aah, that is just argh, we do not like that part of me." 

‍

Pay attention to that and turn your attention toward that other part of you, whether it's an inner critic, an inner skeptic, an inner naysayer, or whatever it is, or even maybe you feel sad. Maybe you've noticed that there's an angry part of you and then you feel sad about feeling angry. Just notice those other feelings and there's this really cool thing, and it sounds too good to be true. 

‍

But as you begin to do this work and you notice, "I really just need to get curious and try to understand this anger and beating myself up about it is not helping." And, so, you can ask that part of you, that part of you that is so used to beating you up, "Could you just give me some space?

‍

Could you just take a step back? 

I'm trying to get curious about this anger because, to be honest, if I can get curious and show myself some compassion, I'm going to be able to arrive at a better solution. So you begin to retrain the critical part of yourself, the skeptical part of yourself, whatever it is. To give you some space to lead yourself from that spirit-led place within. Where you can be present to yourself without judgment, without shame. 

‍

So this step involves extending compassion toward yourself. And this is a step that is so important to all of this work. You're beginning to retrain how you connect with yourself and beginning to notice those critical voices. 

‍

It's a process of noticing, and naming, and then pivoting to, "Can I be with this part of me, with this emotion, with this negative belief, with compassion? Is it possible that showing compassion to my anger, even to the parts of me that carry shame? To the parts of me that carry insecurities. To the parts of me that are fearful; is it possible that if I show compassion toward myself in this moment, it might actually lead to a better way?"

‍

These parts of us tend to soften in the context of compassion. And I want you to think, again, about parenting your own kids, if you have kids. And if you don't have kids think of a niece, or a nephew, or a child, they need you to connect with them before you can help them change. Connection precedes, change. 

‍

If you just walk into a room full of kids and start telling them what to do, they might do it in a minute, but they're not going to like it. But if you walk in and you connect, "I see you there, I know your name. I'm here with you. I'm not going to shame you. I need to understand you so that we can figure out a better way." You're authoritative, don't get me wrong, but you're not shaming, you're not judging, you're not criticizing. You are connecting before you try to change the action. 

‍

So this is the model for how we want to start to be with the parts of our own selves. "It's okay, I get that you are terrified. I'm not going to berate you for that any longer. We're going to take a deep breath. We're going to own it. We're terrified, this is going to be really hard. I don't even know if I can do it. It's okay, I see you. I see you, it's okay. You get to be here at this table. There are other parts of me that are a little bit braver and that are going to take over now. But I'm not going to shame you or berate you that you're scared." 

‍

And then suddenly you start to notice that part of you soften. "Oh, okay, if I can be a little bit afraid, then I won't take you over." And you start to create these healthy boundaries. "You can be here, fear, but I'm not going to let you drive. I'm not going to let you take me over." And you start to connect to yourself in a more compassionate way. 

‍

< Music >

‍

Step three, and this is for folks who have a faith background. You invite God to be with you and, especially, to be with this part of you. We are emotional, thinking, and spiritual beings, and there are tremendous spiritual resources available to us. But so often when we are in pain, when we are fearful, when we are angry, we feel like we have to solve that on our own. Instead of naming what's happening and inviting God to be with us in that. "God, I am angry. Can you be with me in that anger?"

‍

And, so, often, so many of us have been trained that we have to make that go away. That if God shows up, well, then we can't be angry. But I want you to consider Jesus and the different emotions that Jesus had. I'm not convinced that God is there to shoo those emotions away. What I believe is that God comes in and helps us gain clarity. "You know what? You're angry for a reason, and I get that."

‍

"I'm angry with you."

‍

"Let me carry some of that anger so that you don't go off and do something stupid. So that we can be wise in how we act on behalf of that anger, but I'm with you. I'm with you."

Or "I see that grief and I grieve with you, and I can carry some of that grief with you. I'm not here to take it away, or shame you, or tell you that you've got to spiritualize that grief. That somehow your grief is a sign that you don't have faith. Ah-ah, I'm here with you in it. I grieve, too, for those atrocities. They break my heart, too, and in fact, I can carry some of that grief with you so that it's not so heavy for you."

‍

This is what I think it means when Jesus says, "My burden is light." It doesn't mean we don't still carry some of that weight. But He comes along and He makes those burdens a little lighter because we're not alone in them any longer. We're not alone in those painful emotions. 

‍

So we invite God to carry some of that with us and help us be wise in those emotions. And this is where the heart of this work, as a spiritual practice, comes to light. In my own life, I often first take inventory of the parts of my own soul that need my attention. So in the morning, I might just make a list, "I'm tired, this morning."

‍

"I'm defeated."

‍

"I'm excited."

‍

"I really don't want to pray. I just want to get going with my day, today, because, I think, I can handle it today." 

‍

Whatever it is that I'm feeling I just make a note of it, and then I invite God into that experience. This is prayer. This is prayer, "God, I just wrote this down on a piece of paper. Would you come look at what I wrote down on this paper, too? Would you help me?" 

‍

Not so that I can shine it up and be all set, so God will be happy with me because that's what so many of us have been trained to do. But so, "God, this is just real right now. I'm fighting every instinct to just bypass my quiet time, today, and hit the ground running because I got so much to do and I'm just going to get it done on my own. So could you just own that with me and see that that's where we're at?"

‍

And God may not magically take that away, maybe that's the best you do for prayer that morning. But that was a prayer and God's now in it with you, and you're not alone. And these parts of us begin to trust God in a different way. "God, there is a part of me that is so worried about my child, about my spouse, about this friend, about this situation. I am so worried, God, I can't stop myself from worrying, and I'm not going to shame myself for that. 

‍

But, God, I know you see that worry and I'm going to lift that worried part of me up to you. And I'm going to ask you to help other parts of me that you've made. The parts of me that can just take a deep breath, the parts of me that can put one foot in front of the other, to be emboldened, to be strengthened. And I'm going to ask you to help me nurture that worried part of me that's actually getting in my way, but she's scared, God. 

‍

So come be with all of me, today. Here it is, I'm not hiding anything from you. I've just bared my soul open, you see it all, it's all there anyway. Here it is, it feels like a mess, this morning. 

Here it all is, God, let your light shine into every corner of my soul, you see it all. You see it all. I don't have to fix it to come to you, here it is, God. Here's my heart laid open bear."

‍

Right there is a little glimpse of hope. A little glimpse of you are not alone. A little glimpse of relief. A little glimpse of, paradoxically, wholeness. You're not hiding anything. And, so, this work becomes a form of prayer. It becomes a spiritual practice, and you start to pray for parts of yourself as you would pray for a close friend. 

‍

For example, maybe you're aware of the chronic people-pleasing part of you. This part of you that just sneaks in and you can't make it stop. And, so, you get a tiny little bit of differentiation from it. Just a tiny little ability to go, "Yes, when I go into this situation, I am just going to turn it on and I'm going to start pleasing everybody, and I'm not even going to be able to stop myself. 

‍

God, I just want to name that. I just want to name that. Would you help me take a deep breath and get just a little bit of space, some healthy distance, from that part of me? I'm not going to be able to solve it altogether. She's been with me a long time. But what if I could just take a deep breath, with your help, before I say any yeses, today. I'm just going to try to take a 10-second pause before I do any perfecting. When I worry, I'm going to just take a deep breath, God, and invite you to be with that part of my soul."

‍

Again, this isn't magic, this is a practice, but, over time, as you practice bringing each of these parts into your own conscious awareness, you begin to differentiate from them inside of your soul. You begin to name them; you begin to get curious about them. You begin to show compassion for yourself because there's a reason these parts of you are there, almost, always going all the way back to childhood, in ways that you've been conditioned by the past. 

‍

As you begin to get to know them, you begin to build trust with yourself. And in partnership with God's Spirit, these parts will begin to soften. They will begin to trust you to lead them, not the other way around. 

‍

Now, I want to talk briefly about steps four and steps five. We go into great detail in Boundaries for Your Soul. So if you want more resources, especially, on this unburdening part, I would refer you to chapter seven. There are a bunch of lists in chapter seven, of Boundaries for Your Soul, on a lot of the fears and burdens these different parts can have. So I'm going to just touch on this here. Those first three steps are really where I want you to focus because that's sort of the entry-level of this work. 

‍

But some of these parts of us carry burdens from the past, and these relate to these wounds from childhood. These burdens are extreme beliefs or feelings that parts of you have taken on, as a result of painful experiences. When you're a young child you can't process complex events. And, so, at some point, you interpret events in ways that maybe were not helpful. And, so, parts of your soul hold on to these beliefs all the way into adulthood. 

‍

So some examples are, these are common examples. Let's say your parents are divorced. "My parents got divorced, so I'm destined to get divorced, too." This is sort of a common belief burden that can lurk in the corners of our soul. 

Or "I have to take care of others to earn their approval, there's just no way around it." I talk a lot about this in The Best of You, in chapter two, this fawn response. Where a rational mind, in the present day, knows this isn't true. But parts of us really believe, all the way back in our implicit memory, there's this memory stored of, "I have to take care of other people otherwise I'm not worth anything."

‍

And, so, there's this weight, deep inside, that's really hard to change. And your rational brain won't, necessarily, change it. You might notice a vague sense of distrust of others, that goes back to childhood wounds, of being taken advantage of, of being hurt. You might notice deep-seated, self-doubt that doesn't really make sense anymore because you're doing okay in your life. You've figured some things out. But there's a part of you that's stuck back in childhood. 

‍

I see this all the time, those childhood years are really formative. Parts of us get stuck back there and they take up these burdens. And, so, again, rationally, you may understand that you don't need to feel this way anymore or think this way anymore. But this part of you still does get stuck back in childhood. And to further complicate matters, parts of us get mixed up about God, too. Developmentally, young parts of you don't know the difference between, say, a caregiver and God. 

‍

And, so, when a parent, or a church leader, or another adult disappoints you or misrepresents God, a young part of you picks up this idea that God is not trustworthy. That God does not care about you, that God has abandoned you, and it makes sense. Because those first initial caregivers are our first glimpse of what God is like and, so, there's this wound. 

‍

And, so, part of you is like, "I believe that God loves me. My theology tells me that's true. The Bible tells me that's true. I believe God is good, but there are parts of me that just cannot experience it." And whenever I hear that; I wonder, is there a wound? Is there a burden that goes all the way back, where somebody did not give you the care that you needed? That did not give you that lived experience in your body of what goodness, of what love, of what somebody being present to you feels like? 

‍

And, so, how could you know that when that part of you never got that? And, so, it can be frustrating because you're like, "I believe this. I wish I could experience this." And it's pretty common. And, so, if that's your experience, please know you're not alone. You might pick up beliefs like, "God is a harsh taskmaster who is there to punish me."

‍

Or "I have to be perfect to earn God's approval."

‍

These parts pick up these messages and they can go really deep. And, again, it can be frustrating when parts of you know this isn't true, but you just can't let go of it. And, so, this step of unburdening is all about connecting to these young parts of us, hearing their stories, where they picked up these ideas and inviting them to be in this new reality. Where you, and God, and a few safe other people can help them understand a different experience of love. 

‍

A different experience of whatever that mistaken belief or burden they've picked up. In this case, healing is experiential it's not just cognitive. There is a reparative experience that happens as you connect to a deep part of yourself, to a part of your story, that never got heard. 

‍

Henri Nouwen talks about going and bringing, home, parts of us that got left behind. And this is the work of deep healing. And this is work that I would encourage you not to do alone. You can do this in the safety of a therapist's office, especially, if you've got trauma or deep, unhealed pain. 

‍

You can do this with a small group, with safe people, where you learn to bear witness in a safe, healing way to each other's stories. But this is a really beautiful step. I want you to know about it because if you're someone who relates to what I'm saying, there is a way for you to repair that part of your story. 

‍

And then, lastly, finally, this fifth step of integration. I love this step because this is the step where these parts begin to take on new roles. And, so, you've begun to connect to each of these parts. We all have a lot of different parts, but we all have our go-to parts. In Boundaries for Your Soul I talk about three-key parts, for me, the people-pleasing part of me that just smiles and nods. And it's always, "Okay, oh, sure, I can help."

‍

"I can do whatever you need."

‍

"I'm good."

‍

"Never worry about me." This part of me that's just so familiar to me. I've had it forever and I work with her all the time. And then there's a numbing out part of me, an avoidant part of me, that is like a brick wall of avoidance, that just will not go to the painful places. And in my own journey of reclaiming long lost desires, long lost dreams, that I wasn't invisible, in fact. That I'm not always okay, and that I also have needs. 

‍

And, so, these are three of my go-to parts that I've gotten to know, I've gotten curious about. I've spent a lot of time showing compassion, understanding their stories. Doing this work with other people, and in the privacy of my own heart and with God. And this integration piece is so beautiful because it's where you start to see each of these parts take on their original God-made role.

‍

And, so, in my case, that part of me that just smiles, and nods, and is so pleasing, and makes everybody else happy, and just to a degree where I start hurting myself. There is a kindness to that part of me. There is a gentleness to that part of me who, very so genuinely, never wants to harm a soul. Who would, if she could, and was God, which she is not, take on the burdens of everybody around her. She is the highly empathetic part of me and these are good qualities. 

‍

But she has learned that she does not get to take charge of the controls of my soul because when she does, it is not healthy. She takes me way beyond my own limits. Which ends up causing harm to me and also causes harm to other people, when I can't follow through because I have human limits. And, so, empathy is a great example. 

Like joy, if you watch the Inside Out, a Pixar movie, which is good quality but cannot take over the seat of your soul because there's also got to be a place for sorrow. 

‍

In my case, I've had to learn to let her be kind but within healthy boundaries. And that means she has to make place for parts of me that are also suffering. Parts of me that need empathy. Parts of me that need to be seen by other people. 

‍

And, so, these parts of me have learned to take on new roles. They let me lead them. The part of me that is just a brick wall of avoidance. Sometimes that's helpful, when I do need to muscle my way through something because I'm on a deadline. But that part of me is no longer allowed to operate outside of my conscious awareness. 

‍

And, so, that part of me becomes the part of me that reminds me, "It's time to shut down in a healthy way."

‍

"It's time to play."

‍

"It's time to do something silly."

‍

"It's time to do something besides work." 

‍

Each of these parts is now reintegrated. They each play an important role, as I have, more deeply, more skillfully, more wisely, learned how to lead the parts of my soul and I would not be able to do this work apart from the God who made me. It's paying attention to each of these parts with the help of God's always kind, always present, always patient, always truthful presence to help guide me. 

‍

And as I become more whole, more of all of these things, and can lead myself wisely, I have expanded my capacity to show up for other people in healthy ways and within healthy boundaries. The two things go together. The healthier the boundary lines fall within my own soul, the healthier I show up with other people. This is a spiritual practice that leads to emotional, mental, and spiritual wholeness. We will never arrive at perfection. 

‍

Do not get me wrong, I still get out of balance. But so much more quickly, I know how to course correct, and I know what to do. I know how to find the part of my soul that needs attention, and I've built trust with these parts of myself. This is my prayer for you. Start by getting curious. Just getting curious, you don't have to fix anything. You don't have to heal anything. Just start getting curious about the parts of your own soul. 

‍

Start showing compassion for what you notice. Which might even mean starting by showing compassion for that inner critic, who works so hard to keep you in check. And, lastly, invite God into this process every single step of the way. The good shepherd who left the 99 to go find that one lost sheep, and who wants to do that very same thing inside your own soul, He cares about every hair on your head, and He cares about every lost, or wounded, or hurting part of your soul. 

‍

< Outro >

Thank you for joining me for this episode of The Best of You. Be sure to check out the show notes for any resources and links mentioned in the show. You can find those on my website at dralisoncook.com. That's Alison with one L- cook.com.

‍

Before you forget, I hope you'll follow the show now so that you don't miss an episode. And I'd love it if you'd go ahead and leave a review, it helps so much to get the word out. I look forward to seeing you back here next Thursday. And remember, as you become the best of who you are you honor God, you heal others, and you stay true to your God-given self.

‍

We all need a map to our soul. A way to understand the emotions, the wounds, the areas that feel broken. That's what I love about the Internal Family Systems (IFS) model of therapy-it provides a map that everybody can incorporate into their daily spiritual practice. It's your guide to navigating overwhelming thoughts and feelings.

‍

Today on the podcast, I'm walking you through this map, including the following:

1. A picture of wholeness

2. The cost of not tending your inner life

3. A map of the parts of your soul

4. The 3 types of parts we all have

5. How Jesus relates to each part

6. What it means to have healthy boundaries inside your soul

‍

Thanks to our sponsors:

Organifi -Go to www.organifi.com/bestofyou and use code BESTOFYOU for 20% off your order today.

Hiya Health- Visit hiyahealth.com/BESTOFYOU and get your kids the full-body nourishment they need to grow into healthy adults.

Music by Andy Luiten

Sound editing by Kelly Kramarik

‍

Resources

• Get your 3 free resources here!
• Get 46% off Boundaries for Your Soul & The Best of You here.
• Inside Out Movie Trailer
• IFS Institute
• Episode 4: What Do I Need To Know About Trauma?
• Episode 35: Change is Hard–Why We All Need to Detox From Unhealthy Dependencies From Time to Time
• "Try thinking about this place as the core of your being-your heart, where all human sentiments are held together in truth. From this place you can feel, think, and act truthfully."  The Inner Voice of Love, by Henri Nouwen
• "We need to have spaces inside ourselves where we can have a feeling, an impulse, or a desire, without acting it out." Boundaries, by Dr. Henry Cloud and Dr. John Townsend
• John 14:16-17
• Matthew 23:25
• John 8:1-12
• John 5:1-18
• Resources for support

‍

Transcript

‍

Alison: Hey everyone, and welcome back to this episode of The Best of You podcast. I am so glad you're here, and I am so excited to start, today, this brand-new series on Boundaries for Your Soul. It's all about turning overwhelming thoughts and feelings into your greatest allies. 

‍

It's really all about emotional and spiritual wholeness. It's a deep dive into the center of your God-made soul. It's the heart of everything I do.

‍

In fact, as you listen to these episodes today and, especially next week, you will hear so much of my approach to this work of becoming emotionally and spiritually whole, in partnership with God's Spirit. We have so much to cover here. 

‍

Next week I'm going to walk you through five steps to identifying and understanding a part of your soul that needs your care, that needs your attention. And then we're going to take a deep dive into different emotions that can be tricky and challenging and hard for us. So it's going to be a great series.

‍

And, so, before we get started, I want to point you to some resources I've provided, that will help you as we move through this series. So there are three free resources on my website. One is a PDF - Map of The Soul. We're going to go through that map today. 

‍

There's a PDF devotional that takes you on this whole journey, and there's a guided audio reflection. This is a way for you to practice this framework, that I'm going to teach you today and next week, with me guiding you through it. Some people learn more through visualizing. Some people learn more through reading, and some people learn through hearing. And, so, I've got three ways for you to engage this work. 

‍

They're all at my website, it's dralisoncook.com/ifsbundle. Those three resources are there for you for free. You will also find there a link to get my first book Boundaries for Your Soul, which is a detailed overview of this approach. As well as my book, The Best of You, which also alludes to this approach. You can get both books together for the price of 1, which is 46% off.  The link to that special discount bundle also there at dralisoncook.com/ifsbundle. 

‍

As always, if you are someone who is dealing with trauma, or unhealed pain from the past. If you have emotions that you haven't really looked at, and they're pretty deep. And you have a sense, "Ooh, that's going to be scary." We've talked about this in the episode on trauma. Please do not journey alone. 

‍

There is a list of all kinds of resources; including support groups, counselors, IFS therapists who operate from a faith-based perspective. All of those resources are at my website dralisoncook.com/resources. Including thoughts on how to go about finding a therapist. So please don't take this journey alone. Find those resources at dralisoncook.com/resources.

‍

So I want to start off, today, by talking about wholeness. Wholeness is this thing we want. We want to feel whole. We want to feel aligned. We want to feel at peace with ourselves, is another way, I think, of thinking about wholeness. It's things coming together. It's harmony. It's a sense of being undivided. It's integration. It's a good feeling. 

‍

When we feel united inside of ourselves, we feel at peace with the decisions we're making. We feel at peace with our past, we feel at peace with the people in our lives. This is the picture of wholeness that we all want. 

‍

The problem is that we tend to think of this idea of wholeness as the absence of conflict, as the absence of tension, as the absence of challenges. We tend to think of it as this magical place we'll arrive. When we just are suddenly at peace with ourselves and with the world around us. 

‍

And if you think of a puzzle, this is the best metaphor I can think of, where there are all these pieces laying around. And you have to take your time to, painstakingly, take each piece put it together in its proper relationship with the other pieces, to create this beautiful picture. The pieces matter to the whole. If you lose some of those pieces or you can't figure out how to put certain pieces together, you miss out on that whole. There's a process, there's work, to be done inside our souls to get to that picture of wholeness. 

‍

And, so, this is what I want to walk you through, today, is the pieces. We first have to understand the pieces, the parts, of our souls, in order to bring those parts of our souls together to create this beautiful wholeness. 

‍

This harmony, this way of being in the world that is a little bit lighter, a little bit easier, a little bit more calm, a little bit more clear. Where we're really operating out of all of who we are, in a way that is emotionally and spiritually integrated. This is a lofty goal, that's why we're doing a six-week series on it. This is a lofty goal. 

‍

So today, I want to give you a map of these parts. A framework, a way of understanding the different parts of your soul. Because in order to get to the wholeness, the harmony, the piece, we have to understand the parts. 

‍

Our interior lives are murky; we can't see the parts of our souls. If you get a broken arm, you know something is wrong, you can see it. You can go to a doctor and point to it and they can help you mend it. But when a part of your soul is out of alignment, or hurting, or broken, or shoved so far aside, that you can hardly even find it. What do you do? It's murky in there. 

‍

And, so, in my work, I've developed a great respect for an evidence-based model of therapy, that looks at the soul as an internal family. 

‍

Just as you parent in your own family, right, where every part of the family, every family member has a role to play, every family member is valuable. Every family member needs to have a voice, and then somehow all of these voices have to come together in some sort of semblance of harmony where everyone is honored. It requires a lot of negotiation, right? To help your family to thrive.  Not everybody gets their way. It's how we learn to get along with others, right? We have to learn to negotiate. We have to learn how to speak up for ourselves, and also have to step back to give others a turn.

‍

In a healthy family, no one individual is taking over the family, but also no one individual is getting shoved aside or not getting heard. It's a lot of work to create harmony in a family.

‍

And this is the way of your soul, your soul is like a family. 

‍

Now, if you've seen the Pixar movie Inside Out, I would encourage you to go back and watch that film as you listen to this series. It's a great film. It's a children's movie, but it's great for adults too. And it depicts a little bit of what I mean by these family of parts, these different emotions where you've got fear, you've got anger, you've got joy, this “will” to be happy all the time. You've got sadness, you've got disgusted sort of this eye rolling part, all existing inside the minds of each character. And each one of those emotions, each one of those parts is vying for control of that person in any given moment. And it's a great picture of what happens inside our own souls.

‍

Now this Internal Family approach that Inside Out does such a great job of depicting is based on the work of psychologist, Dr. Richard Schwartz. Dr. Schwartz, in the early 1990s, came up with this model of therapy, it's called Internal Family Systems. And it's this way of viewing the parts of yourself so that you can lead yourself to wholeness, to harmony. 

‍

It's an evidence-based approach to therapy. I also view it as a spiritual practice, it's a deeply spiritual approach. 

‍

And in Boundaries for Your Soul, which is my first book with Kimberly Miller. We combine this evidence-based approach, IFS, Internal Family Systems, with Christian faith and practice. 

‍

And, so, this is an approach you can use every day, in your life. It's also an approach that people can use, with the help of a therapist, to heal deep trauma, to heal deep wounds, it works for all of us. It's a way of orienting to the parts of our soul, so that we can lead ourselves with clarity, with courage, with compassion. So that we can lead the parts of ourselves wisely.

‍

The basic premise of this approach is that we're all comprised of parts, and it's pretty simple. If you think about your day-to-day, you can imagine a part of you might be tired and wants to stay home or call in sick from work. Another part of you is saying, "No, we can't do that, we got to get ourselves through it. We got to get to work."

‍

Right there, you're experiencing some inner tension. Some inner conflict between two parts of you. A part of you wants to go out this weekend, and a part of you wants to stay home. A part of you is tired, another part of you won't let you stop working. 

‍

We're complex. 

‍

We're comprised of different parts, and wholeness doesn't come through choosing between the different parts or shoving 1 part aside. It comes as a result of learning to attune to these different parts of you, to pay attention to them, and to negotiate within yourself the best way forward. This is a way of leading the parts of yourself in partnership with God's Spirit

‍

Now, I know some of you may think, "Gosh, this sounds like a lot of work. It's hard enough to raise my kids, and get to work. And how am I going to do this work of parenting my own soul?" And I get that, I mean, this is the biggest thing that's on my heart. Is to encourage you that creating space for this relationship with yourself is as important as all the work you put into the relationship with other people. And it's a deep, profound part of your relationship with God. 

‍

Now, here's the alternative, what we tend to do, if we don't do this work, and I have done this, listen, I have done this. I lived my life this way for so long. We do a couple of things; we work really hard to show up well for others, we please, we produce, we perform, we peace-keep, we hustle, we get the job done. We go and then we shut down, we numb it out, we escape. We do whatever we have to do to try to fill up our gas tank so that we can repeat the cycle the next day. Work hard, shut down. Work hard, shut down. Go. Numb. 

‍

We bounce between those two things, and I've done this, I've lived there, but we end up divided. We don't feel like we're showing up as the best of who we are, and we're not. Because there are parts of us that are being tossed away by the wayside, and this is what I want to walk you through today.

‍

According to Dr. Schwartz and his model, there are three categories of parts of the soul. The first category is that one; that go, please, produce, perform. 

Get through the day, show up for work, do all the things, get the job done. These are our manager parts. These are the parts of us that protect us by preventing bad things from happening. At least, that's what they think, "We just got to get this done."

‍

"We just got to keep people happy."

‍

"We just got to get everything more perfect, and then we'll be okay."

‍

"We just got to keep putting on performing, making sure no one sees what we're really feeling on the inside." 

‍

These are our manager parts. These are parts of us that worry and analyze over and over and over when they're not really solving the problem anymore. They incessantly people please, because we're terrified of what other people are going to think about us.

‍

They're the parts of us that keep working long hours, long after we needed to take a break, they overanalyze, they overthink. They are critical primarily of ourselves.  

‍

These parts of us think they're trying to help by forcing us, shoving us, criticizing us, berating us to make sure we never let anybody down  or never let anyone else see our vulnerabilities or our areas of weakness.

‍

And then we get tired because we are not machines. We are human beings. And so this second category of part kicks in and Dr. Schwartz calls this category firefighter parts. They're called firefighters because they come in to put out the flames of pain after you start to feel overwhelmed. They are the parts of us that just wanna shut it all down. They numb, they escape. They indulge in whatever feels good in the moment just to make it through the end of the day.

‍

These parts are often operating outside of our conscious awareness. If you've ever found yourself mindlessly surfing the internet for hours on end, you can't believe it. When you look at the clock that all that time had passed, they reach for the credit card and just start buying things. When you don't really have the money to spend and might not even need the things.

‍

These are the parts of us that go to food or sleep or exercise or otherwise good things, but to an excessive degree, that's not healthy. These are the parts of us that  binge  television for hours on end, they can turn toward excessive daydreaming of fantasy life. And these are the parts of us that can also turn toward addictions like alcohol, drugs, pills, anything to put out the flames of pain inside of us.

‍

And this is the dichotomy. We are working hard, and then we are shutting it all down. We're out of balance. 

‍

Now, here's the thing, there's a third category of parts. And these are the parts of us we don't often want to face, but they're the parts of us that we need to attune to. That we need to connect to, to bring ourselves back into harmony, and Dr. Schwartz called these parts exiles. 

‍

They're called exiles because we shove these parts aside. They're the parts of us that harbor shame, fears,  self-doubts and insecurities, our hurts, our wounds,  and our unhealed pain. They harbor feelings of being less than feeling worthless, of being unappreciated, unseen, invisible, alone.

‍

These are the parts of us that need our care and God's healing the most. But we are so busy managing or shutting it all down, that we don't get these parts of ourselves the care that they need. 

‍

And as a result, sometimes these exiled parts ambush us. They take us over.  They've been left alone at the corners of our soul where they're not getting the care that they need, and then they can take you over and suddenly you can just be overwhelmed with sadness. You can be overwhelmed with pain. Sometimes we exile anger, and you might find yourself overwhelmed with anger. They come roaring out from where they've been exiled and overwhelm us with the fear, the heartaches, the self-doubt that they carry. 

‍

We're out of balance and we begin to think of ourselves as only sad or only lonely or only broken, and we lose sight of the whole.

‍

This is just one part of our story. It's not the sum total of who we are. Your depression, your sorrow, your fears, your anger, your loneliness. Yes, they are real and they are not the sum total of who you are. They are not your identity. And when we get outta balance, these parts of us can start to feel like all of who we are.

‍

The truth is there are two opposite and equally unhealthy ways of relating to these parts of your souls. One, you can keep them too close to you, right? And you become that one part of you. And that's what we saw in the Pixar movie Inside Out when one part tries to take over. But you can also push these parts of you too far away.

‍

If you're too close, you risk being overwhelmed by them. And if they're too far, you risk being cut off from them only to be influenced by these parts of you in harmful ways.

‍

Our job is to learn to lead each of these parts of us wisely.

‍

Together, these three categories of parts create a whole. None of these parts of you is bad. Please hear me say that. We need the manager, parts of us  that get us up in the morning, that help us comb our hair, that help us clean up the house, or get the chores done and put our best foot forward. But they become problematic when they take over, at the expense of the other parts of us. 

‍

Same with those firefighters, they are not all bad. We need healthy relief, healthy comfort, healthy distractions, healthy escape. We talked about that in the series on detoxing. The goal of a detox isn't to remove our coping tactics, it's to find healthier ones. But these firefighters can get really problematic, if we are not aware of them, they're sneaky. They sneak in and they get us to just, mindlessly, numb out, instead of giving ourselves the care that we actually need, and these exiles are precious - These are the parts of us that remind us that we’re human That we’re tender, vulnerable, and that we have needs. They remind us to slow down, that WE might be the one who needs our attention:

‍

I wonder what that loneliness is about. Let’s not sideline it. But let’s also not let it overwhelm us. Let’s get curious about it and talk with a friend about it.

‍

These are the parts of us that help us identify where we have needs and where we need to learn to speak up on behalf of ourselves with safe people. They are the parts that need our compassion, our attention, our kindness, our patience, our gentleness the most.

‍

So how do we know when we are out of balance, when a part of our soul needs our attention?

‍

Well, the biggest cue is when you find yourself doing something at an extreme. You might notice, 

‍

“Man, I just cannot stop working. I am exhausted. I've worked long past my deadlines. I just can't stop myself. I wonder what else is going on inside of me.”

‍

OR

‍

“I cannot stop analyzing this situation. I'm not getting anywhere. It's not helping me, but I can't stop. I need to slow myself down and pay attention. Some part of me might be hurting and this, all this analysis, all of this, you know, mental paralysis is not helping.”

‍

Or

‍

“I cannot stop saying yes or pleasing other people. It's like a compulsive need meeting and I can't stop and it's starting to hurt me. I wonder if there's a part of me that needs my care, how can I slow it down to discover what's really going on inside of me?”

‍

 OR  

‍

“I just checked out for hours, like I could not get myself to do something.”

‍

And so you start to become your own detective. We start to pay attention to the different parts of our soul, so we can bring ourselves into alignment. And next week, I'm going to walk you through a five-step process of doing that. But for today, I just want you to begin to recognize these different parts of yourself, and begin to notice when maybe a manager part of you is taking you over. 

‍

An extreme emotion, like anger, like frustration, like worry, like fear, doubt—a lot of things can serve as a cue to pay attention. It's like a light on that dashboard of your car, when it goes off saying, pay attention to your car.

‍

Something isn't working quite right. These extremes are an opportunity to get curious. A part of your soul needs your care. Now, remember we talked about this in episode four on trauma. Do not take this journey alone. If it feels overwhelming to you. Bookmark it. Say, “wow, this is something I might need to pay attention to with the help of a therapist or in the safety of community.”

‍

Now, here's the good news. At the center of all of these parts of us is the place inside you where the Holy Spirit lives. And, so, often we tend to look externally to God to solve our problems or externally to other people. And I talk about that in The Best of You, a lot, in chapters two, three, and four. Where we forget about this internal place inside of us. Where the best of who God has made you to be, your God-given self comes together with the power of God's Spirit to help you lead yourself wisely. To help you lead yourself with wisdom and in truth. 

‍

This place inside of you, is a place where all of you are comes together with all of who God is to lead these parts of you into wise, brave, action. You have this inside of you, it's the best of who you are. And part of our job, as humans, is to begin to peel back the layers of all of these parts so we can access this beautiful place inside of us, and lead ourselves wisely.

‍

Henri Nouwen talks about this place inside of us as, "A place of truth, where we hold ourselves together with compassion." 

‍

Dr. Henry Cloud and John Townsend, talk about it as "A place inside where we can become aware of our different thoughts and feelings.” We can name them without shame, and without judgment, and without criticism. We can just be with the parts of ourselves with compassion.

‍

Dr. Schwartz called this the “Self.”

‍

And in Boundaries for Your Soul, we call it, "the Spirit-lead self." It's the place where who you are comes together with God's Spirit, and you can lead yourself well.

‍

Before we close, I want to give you a metaphor that I really love to describe this process, as well as examples from Scripture. And then next week, we're going to get into a practical five-step process to begin to do this work inside your own soul. Of just paying attention to the different parts of your soul, and learning to lead the parts of you wisely.

‍

All right, in my experience, both as a therapist and in my own life, I came to find out that we are so often trying to operate in our lives without connecting to this place inside of us. Where God's Spirit helps us lead the parts of ourselves well. And the metaphor that I love is it's like a middle school band. 

‍

Now, I played in a middle school band and it was chaos. And I want you to imagine this middle school band without a conductor. The trumpets are over there just taking over. They think they're knocking it out of the park. They think they're in charge, but they’re playing too loud. 

‍

The flutes are playing so quietly or out of tune, you can barely hear them. They're such an important part, but if they’re not led well, you can miss them. 

‍

And then we got the drums, in the background, and these guys are just having a ball, they could care less about anybody else. They are just beating in whatever way feels good to them, and it's chaos. 

‍

And imagine a wise, capable, kind conductor steps up in front of the band and begins to slowly, methodically, with such wisdom, such tenderness, such compassion begins to help each of those parts play their role well. 

‍

Suddenly the trumpets are in key and they're playing at the right tempo, the right volume. The flutes come in and sound so beautiful, adding a gentleness, a serenity to the melody, and the drums are back there keeping everybody on beat. Suddenly, you have a beautiful harmony, and that wise conductor has helped each of those parts play their role well. 

‍

We all have access to that wise, inner, conductor and that's our job. It's to begin to learn how to show up for these parts of ourselves with wisdom, with gentleness, with honesty, with direction, with leadership. So that we can show up in the world authentically, from all the way down deep inside. 

‍

So that the insides of who we are begin to match how we show up on the outside. 

‍

This is the work of becoming more whole. It's how we heal the different parts inside of us. It's also how we show up to be a healing force, for good, in the lives of others. 

‍

And as you consider these different parts of your own soul, I want you to think about the way that Jesus interacted with three different kinds of people in the Gospels. And I love this because it maps onto these characters inside our own soul. 

‍

So number one, we see Jesus interacting with the sanctimonious, the stubborn, the self-sufficient religious leaders who thought they could do it all on their own. They thought they knew the right way, and they didn't really need Jesus. They were just going to get it done on their own. 

‍

And how did Jesus respond to those folks? He often asked them to take a step back. He accused them of shining it up on the outside when the inside remained empty. 

‍

And then Jesus also engaged with those who were straying; the sinners, the ones who were cheating, who were stealing, who were lying, who were engaged in adultery, and all sorts of things like that. 

‍

And how did Jesus engage those folks? He did not shame them. He named what was happening and He invited them into a different role. "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone." 

‍

"Your faith has saved you, go in peace." He did not shame them; He gave them a new role.

‍

  And then, finally, we see Jesus engaging the suffering. Those who were sick, whether mentally, emotionally, or physically. For reasons beyond their control, they have been marginalized by society. And, yet, Jesus invited them to draw closer. He welcomed them in and gave them purpose, "Get up, pick up your mat, and walk." You have value here.

‍

You matter.

‍

You are no longer invisible. 

‍

And here's the thing, we all have a little bit of all three of those types of people inside our own souls. Those sanctimonious, stubborn, sometimes, self-sufficient manager parts of us that just think, "We can muscle our way through and get it done on our own."

‍

And then we have those parts of us that just are so tempted to stray. Just drown it out in that bag of cookies, in that endless scrolling, in that entertainment, in that alcohol, in whatever it is, that will just shut it all down. 

‍

And then we have the suffering parts of us that are so weary, so silenced, so invisible, in the corners of our own soul. 

‍

And Jesus comes in and He helps us reorient our own soul, to create a more beautiful melody. 

‍

"It's okay, inner critic, you've done your work telling me all the ways i’ve gotten it wrong, today, could you please step back. I'm in charge now, and I know a better way. 

‍

I don't need to pick up that bag of cookies, that alcohol, that credit card, that numbing. I need to rest, reach out for help, dance, or play or be silly instead, in this moment."

‍

And, "Sadness, you're welcome here. I don't want you to take me over, but you have a seat at the table. It's okay to be here, you are welcome."

‍

"Fear, you can be here, too, you don't get to drive. You don't get to take control of this decision. But I see you, you can be here, you can also have a seat at the table."

‍

And suddenly it's like our inner lives become this grand boardroom, where all these parts have a seat at the table. Our inner critic, our fear, our worry, our sadness, our people-pleasing parts, our perfectionists. 

‍

We start to honor each one, and the good intention behind their actions, when we are leading from this place inside where the Holy Spirit dwells. Where we can hold all of these parts together in wisdom, and in truth, and lead ourselves into a brave new way forward. This is the work of becoming whole. 

‍

We start to course-correct with patience and with intention.

‍

This is the work of taking every part of your soul and bringing it into the light of healing, so that you can begin to lead yourself well with joy, even with some playful energy. You start to delight in parts of you that sometimes make you roll your eyes; you're no longer shaming yourself. You are delighting in the intricacies of how you were made, 

‍

This is the beauty of healthy boundaries inside your own soul.

Today on the podcast, I'm talking with my friend and teaching pastor at Crossroads Church in Cincinnati, Alli Patterson, about her new book, How to Stay Standing. In this powerful episode, Alli shares her own story of hitting rock bottom when the scaffolding of her life collapsed, and how she rebuilt the foundation from the ground up.

‍

We discuss the following:

1. How tiny decisions can lead us toward devastating realities

2. What kept Alli from making eye contact for over 6 months

3. How shame sneaks in, even when you know you've been forgiven by God

4. The power of telling your story in safe places

5. 3 practical ways to build a strong foundation6. How to take risks on God

‍

Thanks to our sponsors:

• Organifi -Go to www.organifi.com/bestofyou and use code BESTOFYOU for 20% off your order today.
• Hiya Health- Visit hiyahealth.com/BESTOFYOU and get your kids the full-body nourishment they need to grow into healthy adults.

Music by Andy Luiten/Sound editing by Kelly Kramarik

While Dr. Cook is a counselor, the content of this podcast and any of the products provided by Dr. Cook are not specific counseling advice nor are they a substitute for individual counseling. The content and products provided on this podcast are for informational purposes only.

‍

Resources

• Get 46% off Boundaries for Your Soul & The Best of You here.
• Order Alli's new book, How to Stay Standing
• The Soul of Shame, by Curt Thompson
• Episode 35: Change is Hard–Why We All Need to Detox From Unhealthy Dependencies From Time to Time
• Matthew 13, Parable of the Sower
• James 1:22-25
• Resources for support

‍

Transcript

‍

Alison: Hey everyone. Welcome back to today's episode of The Best of You podcast. I am so excited, today, to have my friend, Alli Patterson, on the show. I met Alli almost a year ago. She is a wife, a mom, a writer, and a teaching pastor. She serves at a large church in Cincinnati called Crossroads Church. And she's passionate about equipping others to know Jesus, especially, through the pages of Scripture. 

‍

She's written a new book called How to Stay Standing: Three Essential Practices to Building a Faith That Lasts. I got my hands on this book, and just from the get-go, from the go, Alli is just honest, she's open, she's real. She pulls you right into her story, and right into these practices that she's learned to help you stay strong in your faith. So I am thrilled to have Alli on the podcast today. Hello, Alli, and welcome.

‍

Alli: Alison, thank you for having me, it's really fun to be with you. I feel like I've gotten the pleasure of knowing you personally, and now we get to actually do something together, professionally, which is so fun. 

‍

Alison: It's like a continuation of the conversations we've been having. When I was reading your book I was like, "We operate on different sides of the same coin." I go in more into the psychology piece of standing strong, with a biblical background. And when I read your book, I was like, "Oh, you go into the biblical basis for standing strong." 

‍

Correct me if I'm wrong, but with a real genuine nod to psychology, to what it means to be human. You're not bypassing your humanity, at all, in this book, and I really appreciated that and respected that. So thank you for this gift. 

‍

Alli: Thank you for saying that. I think as I've watched, and read your book, and watched how you interact with your faith, through mental health, and true emotional honesty. It's really been inspiring for me to watch you do that because I have felt encouraged that, "Oh, I don't have all the words that you use for it, but God has taken me on a similar journey." And to some places that you, actually, do such a great job helping other people get to. 

‍

And, so, I wish I had known you 25 years ago, you could have helped me a lot. But I know that God will continue to use you like that, and so often. And, so, I'm like, "I'm paying attention." Because, so often, I think what you're doing is helping people have language for things that we know are happening in us, and around us. But we can so much better engage in them with ourselves, and with God, when we actually understand what's going on, and I think you're just wonderful at that. 

‍

Alison: I love that, thank you. Yes, the naming, and I saw that in your book. I remember when I first started reading it, I texted you and I was like, "I get it." Because you've been saying to me, "Alison, I think there's a synergy between our work."

‍

I knew that on a human level, but the minute I started reading your book, I was like, "I get it. I see it. I see exactly what you mean." And it's like you're coming at it from a different angle, but you're absolutely trying to put words on this experience of being a human, who is trying to consistently turn toward God. 

So I'd love to get started, Alli, today, just from the start, right from the get-go, in the book. You say this thing that I thought was just so well-stated in How to Stay Standing. You start out by saying that you had, quote, "Cracks in the foundation of your life." And then you say something that I thought was so interesting, this was speaking of your early 20s, I believe that, "You'd built a framework for a great life, but you didn't have the foundation to support that framework."

‍

So I'd love to go back in time, for a moment, to that time, and, obviously, hindsight is 2020. There's a lot you know now that you didn't know then. But what do you mean by that? Well, it sounds like you had the scaffolding. You knew some of the right things, but the foundation wasn't there. And they were even cracks in the foundation that was there. 

‍

Alli: I think, as I look back, and I think about the cracks that later became problematic for me, they were, primarily, internal. They were primarily things that maybe only I really knew were happening in me. And therefore, for some period of time when cracks in your character, let's say, for instance, I knew that often I would avoid conflict. I would avoid conflict to the point where I would compromise honesty or integrity, in order to avoid conflict. 

‍

So that would be one example of an enormous crack, that is going to be a problem. But at the time, I just didn't see where that was going to lead. So that would be one specific example. Another one, for me, which is really the base of what I was standing on, at that time in my life is, what I now have words for, I was very driven by performance. 

‍

I was very driven by what I could accomplish and what goals I could meet. And I really thought of myself through the lens of what I did or what I could do, and that was a huge crack. Because we all come to the end of ourselves, at some point, or we have experiences that tell us, at some point in our life, that we actually are not enough, we cannot be enough for ourselves. And I was pretty convinced, in my early 20s, that not only did I have the right tools to build a good life, which in many ways I did, and I was very blessed in some of those things. 

‍

But I was convinced that I was strong enough to put together a life that worked. And I don't think I would have used those words at the time. But when it came right down to it, what I was most trusting in was me, and my ability to be smart enough to work hard enough, to make the right connections. To just do whatever I needed to do to put together a life that worked. And, unfortunately, that does work for some period of time. 

‍

Alison: Yes, at the time, would you have considered yourself a Christian? Was this something that was operating under the surface or?

‍

Alli: So I was raised in a church-going family, and I had a very genuine, I would call it, when I first came to a personal faith in Christ, I was 16. So I was right in the heart of learning what it is to be myself, and on the verge of adulthood, and all of that. 

‍

And I had these couple of years where, as I look back on it, what I think happened was God gave me this gift, I call it a little oasis from 16 to 18. I had this wonderful community, a true faith, a very genuine conversion to a follower of Christ, and then I went to college.

‍

So I had this little bubble, and I've often thought back on that time and thought, God gave me quite a genuine experience of what it felt like, and looked like, to truly follow Him and experience Him. And in so many ways when my life, in my 20s, as I was doing it, man, I was adulting with the best of them. 

‍

I was at a great job. I was traveling. I was newly married. I was making money, all this stuff that you would think would work, when it all started to fall apart. I had this little experience with God, with a very living and genuine faith I fell back on because I was desperate. So I reached out for Him when things started to fall apart, for me. 

‍

Alison: Yes, so what I'm hearing you say, as far as the foundation goes, you did have a seed. You had a seed of faith, you had something there. 

‍

Alli: I did.

‍

Alison: Now, I'm curious, to work with that metaphor. So would you say you set that aside, to start building on a different foundation? Or would you just say you did that little kernel or that rock? You did have a rock. You did have something there, but it wasn't strong enough to be that foundation. And, again, if I'm trying to tease out what was conscious? Did you, consciously, was it slow like, "My faith is still there, but I'm not really building that deeper foundation?"

‍

Alli: Yes, so if I go back to your seed metaphor, what I would say is I never had roots. 

‍

Alison: Okay.

‍

Alli: I never knew what would develop roots. I had this experience where I grew very quickly, and I never rooted, so Jesus tells that parable. And I received the Word and I grew, something sprouted very quickly, and it was very real. 

‍

Alison: Yes. 

‍

Alli: And then I went into a space, in my life, where I didn't have anyone helping me. I didn't know, "Hey, when you go away from that community, the one that was helping you, you need another community of Christ followers around you." I didn't know. 

‍

Alison: Yes.

‍

Alli: And that's one of the... the title of my book is called How to Stay Standing, and in some ways, I have this burn in my heart. Because I think there are things that if we have people alongside of us, who can just say, "Hey, did you know that if you don't have friendships developed in your life, that are moving the same direction you are, that's not a neutral thing. It's actually going to pull you away from God." I just didn't have anyone telling me some of those things. 

‍

Alison: God, it's like you were consciously saying, "I'm going do this." Because sometimes we hear these dramatic, that's what it's so interesting to me about your story. It wasn't like this, "I'm going to do it my way, God." It isn't like a prodigal son story. 

It's slow. You didn't have the tools to know how to keep that foundation strong underneath you. So you ended up just, almost, slowly, little by little, moving in this direction of self-sufficiency, of self-reliance. Of doing things in your own strength, and also you mentioned not having those skills of navigating relationships in a healthy way not knowing how to. 

‍

Who does learn that? I think about that to myself, I'm like, "We don't learn to adult, and we don't learn how to deal with conflict." And, so, you find yourself in your 20s going, "Oh, my gosh." And, so, then, presumably, the structure started to collapse because that foundation wasn't strong. So tell me a little bit about that.

‍

Alli: Yes, so you're totally right, in how you characterize that. I would never have called myself rebellious against God, angry, or I never made the decision to walk away from my faith. I would have considered myself a good person, and I just did it the way I knew how to do it. That's what I learned, and that's what worked for me and, so, that's what I did. Which is why as things started to fall apart it shocked me, it really shocked me.

‍

So in my early 20s, I was working at a big corporate job, probably, bigger than I should have been in my early 20s. And I was really enjoying traveling a bunch, and making money, and having a big career, and all of that kind of stuff, and it was fun, and I was good at it. But also, I was very naive in how I was building relationships. And, at that time, I got into a relationship with another man, and I ended up having an affair, very early days of my own marriage. 

‍

When I say the day before, I would have told you, I would never do something like that. Like never did I think of myself as somebody who would even be open, to doing something which was so clearly out of bounds. Even in my own morality, so clearly wrong.

‍

Alison: Yes.

‍

Alli: And I think that's where all of my illusions ended about who I really was. And as I had this moment, and I described this moment in the book, but it's such a poignant moment in my life. That I found myself looking in the mirror, and I was trying to look at myself. And I think maybe for the very first time, in my life, I actually saw who I was and I had to be honest. "I'm not a person of integrity, here's who I have become. How did I get here from a person that was strong, and smart, and thought of herself as good? Where in the world did this happen?"

‍

Alison: Yes.

‍

Alli: And in lots of work with me and God, and a couple of other wonderful people He put in my life. I really realized that your foundation is solidified in tiny, little decisions you make every day, or you fall into the cracks of those decisions which are getting wider and wider every day. 

‍

And that is, again, beneath the book, is strengthening your foundation and standing on something firm it's not a one big decision that you make at any point in time, it is a continual set of daily choices. And the good news is they're always available to us. 

‍

God is always happy to meet us exactly where we're starting from, whether we're collapsed on the ground, or whether we're just realizing, "Oh, I've been doing something on my own. I wonder what it would be like to include God in this part of my life." And that's really even now as a parent I see that helping lay foundations in other people, in your children, is the same way. 

‍

You could let things go. Sure, you could let something go, you could even call it like, "Hey, he's a good kid, we'll just let it go this time." Or you could take the time that it takes to dig down and actually lay a piece of the foundation. And, so, I find it very much a daily work of living a life that can stand firm. Because all of a sudden it doesn't unless you've been tending to it. 

‍

Alison: Yes, I love what you're saying. I talk a lot, on the podcast, about how any decision we make is usually the result of about a thousand, tiny decisions prior to it, and that's what I hear you saying. It's not one day you woke up and said, "Oh, I'm going to do this today." 

‍

Nobody does that, well, very few people do that. Instead, I love that awareness, it's okay, "I got here through a thousand tiny steps." And, like you're saying, the good news is I can start taking, now, tiny steps in the direction I want to take; toward God, toward building this healthy foundation.

‍

So in that moment, Alli, I want to ask you, did you experience any shame? Because one of the things we talk a lot, on the podcast, is how shame can sometimes keep us in hiding. It can keep us from that healthy foundation. 

‍

So how did you, in navigating that self-awareness, that, "Oh, my gosh, who have I become?" What was that process? And then to where you are now, which is this teaching pastor, a mom, a wife. I believe you ended up repairing with your husband, correct?

‍

Alli: Yes. 

‍

Alli: So we get there. But what was that process for you? You still had a choice to make in that moment. When you were like, "Who have I become?" You could have just given up. Shame could have taken over and you could have continued to hide. How did you dig your way out? It wasn't just about a foundation; you had to start digging your way out of something. How did you do that? 

‍

Alli: Absolutely. So there are two processes, and I didn't write specifically about this in the book, but I'm so glad that you asked. I really see a process of forgiveness as something very different than a process of removing shame. I think those are highly related but different processes. 

‍

So I knew, fairly, quickly that God, when I asked, and I came to God and I said," I need your mercy, please forgive me. I want to do something different." I was pretty convinced pretty quickly that I had God's forgiveness. And then I went through a process of seeking forgiveness from the people that I had hurt, in the process of that. So the first way out toward forgiveness, for me, was a brutal, honest confession.

‍

Alison: First with God? Would you say first with God?

Alli: First with God.

‍

Alison: I love that you immediately turned toward God. Because, again, I think, shame in many instances steps in and goes, "You can't go to God, you've done this terrible thing." And somehow inside of you that seed, what I love about this is that seed that was there, even if it was a seed. You knew, "Oh, I've got to turn toward God." I love that. 

‍

Alli: Yes, I need Him.

‍

Alison: Yes.

‍

Alli: He was the only thing that I actually felt that I had, and I don't even know why I thought I had Him. I wasn't actively pursuing God. But something He had planted told me, "This is my way out of this." 

‍

And, so, I first went to him in brutal confession, and the second thing I did is I went to my husband. And I think that the repentance, truly, the repentance, the turning around. You're going to stop where you are, and you're literally going to change direction, the only way I knew how to do that was to start telling the truth, and it was brutal. 

‍

And as I did that, that began the path toward forgiveness with my husband. But also, then, where I would describe shame coming into the picture is, primarily, in my external life. Because this sin is the cardinal sin, it's the bad one and, also, you don't hear very many women talk about this. So it's this extra measure of, "How could you?" And very shaming things. 

‍

And, so, I took on this layer of shame to the extent that, Alison, I would not look anyone in the face. And I didn't realize I was doing it at first, but I'm big on eye contact. That's how I like to connect really with people, in the form of eye contact. I like face-to-face communication. And I think that the Holy Spirit pointed out to me at some point, that it had been six months since I had made eye contact with anybody in my life.

‍

Alison: Wow.

‍

Alli: I was so deeply ashamed. And it was at that point that I realized, "Oh, this process of removing shame is something a little bit different than believing you're forgiven."

‍

Alison: Oh, interesting, yes. 

‍

Alli: Because I believed I was forgiven by God, and I was, at least, in the process of pursuing forgiveness with my husband. But I describe shame as the enemy's last-ditch effort. You know that you're forgiven, and you're trying to pursue healing, and you're trying to pursue wholeness. His last ditch effort to keep you oppressed in a heavy, heavy layer of shame. 

‍

Alison: Yes, I agree with you.

‍

Alli: Because then it keeps you from owning your story. It keeps you from talking about it. I still have to fight that instinct, 20 years later. Shame is this deep instinct to hide.

‍

Alison: Yes.

‍

Alli: And every time I talk about my story, now it's like a little jump over a stone. It used to be I would have to crawl up a brick wall and throw myself over because I was so deeply ashamed. And I finally began to realize, "Okay, this will not lead to the life that God has for me." Because I was turning toward God and I have a smile on my face because He almost began to entice me with, "Hey, there's something a lot better than what you're living. If you would come closer, I could show you what that was."

‍

So as I started to pursue God, shame just began to be totally inconsistent with the life that He has for me. And, finally, I had to realize, "Oh, my gosh, when I do tell my story when I do interact with people, their shame goes away. There's a freeing effect on others." And that began to be just too good, it was too good to pass up. 

‍

And, so, I started to realize that shame... a counselor that I saw, said that, "Three times, if you tell your shame story three times, there's a significant loss of impact upon you. That if you can bring yourself to three times telling a new person your story, that you're so ashamed of." A safe person.

‍

Alison: Yes, a hundred percent.

‍

Alli: She was of course giving me guardrails for you don't just talk to people about your stuff, not just any old person. "But if you can get to three, the grip significantly loosens." And I never forgot that, and that was very helpful for me, as I began to realize, "Okay, getting free of shame is something totally different."

‍

Alison: Yes, I love that. Thanks for pausing there because I know, listeners, we talk a lot about shame. And we talk a lot about the things you're saying, "Turning toward God." And I always quote Curt Thompson, in his book The soul of Shame, he calls it "Evil's vector" which is what you're saying. It's the way the enemy wants to keep us, and what I love about what you're saying is you knew you had God's forgiveness. You even had your husband's forgiveness, and shame still-

‍

Alli: Would not let go.

‍

Alison: ...and exactly what you're saying, we know it to be true, that shame thrives in isolation. So tell me, Alli, so now you have your husband's forgiveness. You have God's forgiveness. You're working through your own shame, but then we get back to this foundation. 

‍

So how do you then, because also I can hear people listening, or if someone's been through this, or I see this in my own practice, "So great, I've got all this forgiveness. Great, now, I'll just go back to doing the same thing I was doing." We forget so easily. 

‍

Alli: Yes. 

Alison: So how did you build this healthy foundation? How did just change your day-to-day, decision-by-decision way of being in the world? That's what's harder, in a way.

‍

Alli: That question is exactly what I write about in the book. Because what I discovered during this period of time, where everything felt like it was crumbling down around me. And I reached for God, I genuinely did. And I began to uncover what I, now, see as three, very simple, daily things that I started doing during that time. And I just didn't know, "Oh, my gosh, this is going to be helpful. This is actually going to rebuild something."

‍

And, so, that that is what the book is based upon. The first one is, we've already discussed, it's coming to Jesus. And if you look at coming to Him in Scripture, if you look at the people that he would say came to Him. Or His invitation when He says, "Come to me." Which He says a number of times. 

‍

This act of coming to Him is wholehearted, it's mind, body, and soul coming. It's laying everything down at His feet. It's the moments where you look in the mirror and you tell yourself the truth. It's the moments where you confess something you didn't think you would ever say out loud, because you know that He wants you to.

‍

It's the moments where you come to Him in joy, and you want to share your joy and thank Him in gratitude. It's these genuine moments between you and God, and you can't fake that. You're either coming to be with Him relationally or you're not. And you and God are the only two that know the difference. 

‍

Alison: Amen.

‍

Alli: And, so, the practice of coming to Jesus starts this whole thing. But the middle one is where I will never stop saying this for the rest of my life. What I accidentally did during this period of time in my life, which started to rebuild a foundation, was I got deeply into His Word. 

‍

Alison: Mh-hmm.

‍

Alli: I had for weeks on end, I took some time off work, and for weeks on end, I had a husband who didn't want to be with me. I didn't have any children. I had lost a bunch of friends, it really was me and God. And I started reading His Word again, and I didn't know what I was doing. I wasn't a Bible scholar. I was just a person with a Bible, that was it. 

‍

And I would talk to Him, and I would read His Word, and I would try to understand it. And that really is the second one, which is to hear His Word. And the reason I get so excited about this one is because you really start to hear His voice. 

‍

God begins to be real to you, in moments when your Bible is not sitting on your lap. Because the word of God is alive, and active, and present. Because Jesus is the Living Word of God. I mean, that's what we even call Him. So as we fill ourselves with the written word, the Living Word comes to life around us, and in us, and through us all the time. 

‍

So, Alison, I would get these ideas of things when I wasn't reading my Bible. And I would just be like, "You know what, I think I need to go do that thing." And I would just do it. I was at the point where I had nothing to lose. If I thought it was even, maybe, God, I would do it. Because I had nothing to lose. 

‍

And, now, I look back on those moments where I truly didn't have anything to lose, and I was willing to experiment. I was willing to say, "I think this might be you, God, I'm just going to go with it." And, so, that brings-

‍

Alison: Mh-hmm, can you give me an example? 

‍

Alli: Oh, sure, like, there was some stuff in my house that I had gotten during the time of the affair, and it was still there. And I was like, "Why do I still have these things? They need to go." And I just had this constant feeling like, "I got to get rid of this stuff." It was just a few random things. It was like a pair of earrings, and a book, and it was just some random stuff.

‍

Alison: That reminded you of that period.

‍

Alli: Yes, that represented that period of time, whatever. And I just, again, I felt this little nudge, "Get rid of that stuff. Just get rid of it."

‍

Alison: Yes, it sounds almost like you went through this process. Because, without going into the details, what I hear is that there was a season, there was a period of time, where your husband was upset with you, and you were on your own.

‍

You went through this own self-with-God deep dive, where you're saturating yourself in God's Word. And this is the language I would use, and through that, through completely immersing yourself in God's Word, in the ocean of the word of truth, of Jesus, you came into contact with the best of who you are. The person that God really wanted you to become. 

‍

And, so, that wisdom, what I'm hearing is the beginning of like, "Why would I have this stuff?" It's not necessarily what we hear from God, but what I'm hearing is there was this impulse, this thing inside of you, which I would say comes from that Spirit-led place inside of you. That's now feasting on goodness, that's feasting on God. That's going, "Why would I want this stuff in my house that reminds me of this? I need to..." It was a very practical, concrete, way that you were detoxing, that you were cleansing. 

‍

Alli: I had this other moment where I got in my car, after work one day, and there was a Christian radio station on and I swear, Alison, I have no idea. It was almost like I nudged the dial before I got out of the car in the morning or something. I had never listened to this radio station before. It truly was like a flip of the dial when used accidentally, and it would. I know that's usually not how we tune our radios anymore.

‍

Alison: I'm with you.

‍

Alli: It was on a Christian radio station and it caught my attention. I had never listened to Christian music before. And in that moment, I felt the Holy Spirit. Again, I felt God's presence and He was like, "You need to fill yourself with something different." And from then on I couldn't help but hear, "What else would I be filling myself with?"

‍

It was like, "Oh, songs about bad relationships and terrible childhood, and awful breakups, and terrible sexual scenarios." And just you name it, whatever all the songs are about. And just in that one little moment, I felt like He grabbed my attention and went, "Why don't you just try filling yourself with something else? Why don't you just try filling yourself with something that's the truth, my truth for you." And that was very much how I would practice hearing His Word during that. 

‍

Alison: Yes, it's a practice of hearing.

‍

Alli: Yes, and then slowly it began to seep out of me. I always tell my kids, now, "Whatever you put in it's eventually going to come out, it just is." There's no way around that kitchen logic. What you put in there is what will eventually come out. But the last thing, which really served me well in a space where I didn't have anything to lose. And this is where the final practice, I talk about my book, I think is where a lot of people bail. 

‍

I think a lot of people will genuinely come to God. I think a lot of those people are willing to hear His Word, and believe it's the truth, and the last practice is where a lot of people bail because we do have things to lose, we do have lives. And the last thing is we actually have to do it. 

‍

We actually have to follow through on what the Word says to do, and it requires a lot of courage. It requires sometimes loss. It requires sometimes things that we're afraid of, and confessing the affair is a great example of that because I knew I needed to confess. Because nothing could ever be real without it. I couldn't live in that dissonance. But try confessing that, you know, what you're putting on the line. You know what you're putting on the line. 

‍

Alison: Oh that had to be so scary. 

‍

Alli: You know that you're putting everything that you said you cared about, and you're putting everything on the line. So, luckily, God loves it when we practice in smaller ways, too. We don't always have to be confessing affairs. But in order for your foundation to actually get firm, you must not just hear the Word, you actually have to do the word, and that's, I think, where a lot of people bail. And there's nothing magical about what I'm saying in this book. 

‍

What I'm doing is I'm repeating the words of Christ. Because He calls us to hear His Word and follow through on it. Not just be "Hearers of the word but doers of the word," I think is what James writes. And that is where, actually, I look back on my story and I think, "Man, it was a gift to be in a space where I had very little to lose. Because I was willing to be courageous because I was desperate." And, to be honest, it seems like a gift now. 

‍

There are listeners who will listen and go, "I am desperate." And, to you, I would say this is actually a beautiful place to be. Because you have the advantage of you can go all in on something, that other people will hesitate about.

‍

Alison: I love that. I agree with you, that's the gift of the hitting rock bottom, in a way.

‍

Alli: The broken.

‍

Alison: Yes, I hear you. As painful as it is and I don't wish it on people. But it is this weird gift of a radical invitation, to completely change your life in the way that we should all be changing our lives every day. Which brings me to this question of, how do you continue to do this work when the stakes aren't that high? 

‍

So, now, you're a teaching pastor, you're a mom, you're in a church. How do you keep yourself from going back to that, "I'm a good person." Again, it's more subtle, you would never theologically go there. But just that, I'm going to see it myself that bent toward entropy, that bent towards the path. How do you keep yourself, now, that you've built? Now it's been, I don't know, 20, however many years-

‍

Alli: It's been 22 years or something, it's been a really long time.

‍

Alison: ...that you've been living on a solid foundation, and I still think there's an invitation there. So there's the person that's at rock bottom and that's hard.

‍

Alli: No doubt.

‍

Alison: And there's that person that's "Mm, I'm doing okay, how do I keep solid?" And even just sometimes, I think, kind of passivity, or the path of least resistance, which still isn't doing this work. So what are you doing in your life? 

‍

Alli: Okay, here's what I do, I'm so glad we're talking about this. Because the same thing that will rebuild you from the deepest, darkest hole is exactly the same thing that's available to you today if you're doing great. And what I would say is you need to take risks on God. You need to take risks on God. 

‍

If you cannot name the last risk that you took on God, on His Word, on what He says, on who He is, on what He does. Then that is, ultimately, a succinct way to say, "This is your everyday invitation." 

‍

And you could be doing great right now, and there will still be a risk on God in front of you. And if you take those risks day after day, and we can talk about what some of those are. If you take those risks, day after day, you will end up on a solid foundation. 

‍

Alison: Interesting answers. So give me some examples, I'm curious about this, about what you picked. 

‍

Alli: Okay, here's one you could take this week, actually, take a day of rest. I know very few people that do that, and it's a weekly invitation that we have to trust that God will keep things moving. That He has your back, that you don't have to be a slave to your work. 

‍

That no one is going to hate you if you don't answer them on social media for a day. No one is going to deny their friendship with you if you turn your phone off for a few hours. But we don't actually live like we believe God. 

‍

Instead, we go, "I don't know, I'll try to take a nap on Sunday." This is the daily, the weekly invitation that we have for a day of rest, is a great risk to take on God. 

‍

I'll give you another one, money. What are you doing with your money? Are you actually giving generously? God gives us a 10%, a tithe standard. I believe firmly in the tithe because I don't even think that's mine. I think a tithe is God's, He asked us to return to Him what is His. And are you actually doing with your money what He has asked you to do? 

‍

Are you taking that risk on God? 

‍

Those are two, I think, that we are so used to thinking about as rules that we don't look at them in the context of our relationship, it's actually a risk. 

‍

Alison: I like how you're reframing that. It's not the legalism of it, it's not the rules of it. You're actually saying how we continue to build that foundation is to take a risk on the promises of God. It might also be having that hard conversation with somebody.

‍

Alli: Definitely, oh that's a good one.

‍

Alison: It might be saying no to somebody. It might be believing God that the lies shame is telling us, and going and telling somebody about that struggle that we're having. But I love how you're reframing that as not because of the legalistic, it's because we're betting on God, in a way. And we're keeping ourselves, there's a way in which you phrase that when you say, "Take a risk on God." It helps me, it's energizing. It's energizing our faith versus sliding into that slippery slope of whatever. 

‍

Alli: Here's another great one, I try to do a lot. If I think of a positive word for someone, if I have an encouragement for you, I just believe that you need to hear that and I tell you, immediately, if possible. 

‍

And if I lay my calendar, in front of God, and I pray over it, and there's something that feels weird about something on my calendar for the week, I get rid of it, immediately. And I say to God, "I believe this is you, if I get it wrong, who cares?"

‍

That's why I smile when I talk about this because this is when you find out what you need to know about God. Because I think, Alison, just like people, we deserve to trust God in a way that we know He's there. I don't think He wants to be some Santa in the sky. Where we have to close our eyes and go, "I just hope you're really there."

I actually think He wants to give you a set of personal experiences with Him, where your questions about Him are answered. Where you get to interact with Him in a way that convinces you of who He is. He is so good and so gracious to us. That He will personally convince you of Himself, and He does not need to do that. He does not need to do that.

‍

Alison: It's so interesting because we say these words, "It's a relationship." But if you think about any relationship that stays vital, that stays alive, a friendship, a marriage, you have to work at it. You have to come back and say, "We need to do a date night. We need to take risks. We need to keep the vitality in it." And why would it be any different with God? I love that. 

‍

I know sometimes I'll go through a period where I maybe I feel a little less connected to the vitality of that relationship. And inevitably, one of the things I'll do, I'll make a list of questions that I can't figure out the answers.

‍

What am I supposed to do with this part of my life? Or how am I supposed to...? And I'll make a list of questions that I'm like, "I'm going to just keep..." It's like the persistent widow, "I'm going to keep going to God with these questions."

‍

Rarely, for me, do I hear a like lightning bolt in the sky. But, inevitably, if I keep at it, if I chip away, and I read, and I point myself toward trying, inevitably, God shows up in some way, usually, in a surprising way. 

‍

But I hear that what you're saying. I like that idea of it's never how I expect or sometimes it is, but it always makes me laugh. There's always that inside joke with God, it's like, "Oh, right, there you are God." But that's the fruit of the long game with God. 

‍

Alli: Yes.

‍

Alison: You take those risks, strategically, and I love what you're saying. You're saying something that's really nuanced here, it's not that we're testing God. It's not that we're expecting God to be a genie in a bottle. It's, "I might be wrong, I might take this risk." And maybe God is like, "Actually, that was stupid, you shouldn't." But then that's going to course-correct too, it doesn't matter.

‍

Alli: Yes, it doesn't matter if you're right or wrong. Here's the beautiful thing when you say to God and I've done this, this is how I talk to Him sometimes. And I will say to Him, "Hey, I think this is you, and I got to move on this in the next three hours. So I'm going to do this thing and if it's not you, I'd really appreciate you intervening before then but I'm going. At 3 p.m. I got to go." 

‍

And, so, I will deal with Him the way that I would with anyone else, trusting that, number one He can intervene anytime, anywhere He wants. And number two, if I get it wrong, guess what? I'm going to get the same set of information about God that I would have gotten if I got it right. 

‍

Alison: Yes.

‍

Alli: What I'm going to do is I'm going to meet God in the middle of whatever goes down here, and that's what I want. 

Alison: That's right.

‍

Alli: That's what gets you to the foundation. 

‍

Alison: That's right, that's the relationship. And you'll also, my guess is, you're going to, for the most part, stay within your wisdom. And we're not saying go and buy a lottery ticket.

‍

Alli: Yes, we're not talking about Vegas roulette kind of risk here. We're talking about a risk where you go, "I know your character. I understand your Word, and to the best of my ability I am going to follow, and here's what it looks like and I'm just going to move." 

‍

And many of us drop off at that point because what we've been taught to do, as good Christians, in many cases is, "Wait for confirmation." We're going to pray and we're going to wait." I am pro waiting, if that's the season that I'm in. There are seasons of waiting, there are times when waiting is appropriate. But I would say most of the time, where you interact with God is as you go, and we are so afraid to get it wrong. We are just so afraid to get it wrong. 

‍

And I'm telling you when I've screwed it up, I've learned to laugh. And I've learned to appreciate the wisdom that I get in those times I take risks, and I'm like, "I guess that was just me." I wrote about a couple of them in the book. 

‍

Alison: You're touching on, it's so interesting, Alli, again, this is sort of where you and I are two sides of the same coin. Because this is where in The Best of You, in chapter 10, I write about this idea of spiritual co-dependency where we want to hide. We want God to give us big bold letters in the sky, and really what I'm trying to say it's a partnership. 

‍

We step out with God and that's what you're saying. It's like, "I have some wisdom, it's a little bit scary." It's living courageously from the best of who God's made us to become, bringing God with us, though. 

‍

I have a quote that says, "God directs a person in motion." And that's what you're saying, that's the taking a risk part, taking a risk on God. And what I love about what you're saying is it might be taking a risk. I'm thinking about, there are times where to be honest with God about how scared we are, or about how crummy we feel about this thing we have to do, that kind of thing. 

‍

There are so many ways that works out, but I love what you're seeing there is a lot of movement. There's some pragmatism to it, there are some actions, some concrete steps. And, again, what I sense in you, and I can see it in your face, and I can feel it oozing out of you is this freedom.

‍

And that's like there's freedom, it's like, "I can't lose. How can I lose? Because, regardless, I'm going to learn about God, I'm going to learn about myself." And that's the fruit of that solid foundation that you're talking about. 

‍

Alli: The picture of maturity, to me, in a Christ follower is the ability to use freedom. Because, ultimately, God calls us to be free and He tells us to keep in step with His Spirit, 

and He wants us to use His wisdom. And what He wants us to live, and work, and move, and be in relationship with you as you live in the fullness of who He is. 

‍

And so, for me, the perfect picture of maturity in Christ is actually the ability to use the freedom that you have in Christ. And because part of that, it goes back to the second practice, is we submit to His Word. Because freedom does not look like you do whatever you want, whenever you want. 

‍

Freedom is somebody who understands there is a God who loves me, and who has a way that He has designed life to work. And if I willfully step outside of that I can use my freedom like that, or I can use my freedom to actually bind myself to Him. 

‍

And then in that, I get to do some incredible things that I never thought possible. Because then I get His life, and I get His power, and I get His love for other people. And I get to do and be things I never thought I could do or be. 

‍

Believe me, Alison, when I was 23 years old, crumbled up in a heap, I never imagined I would be courageous. I never imagined I would describe myself as a true Christ follower. Again, I thought I had given up that right to even call myself a Christian. I thought I was totally unworthy and definitely marked for life. 

‍

And I will say to your listeners, who are anywhere around that space, I know that there have been people that have come to you and they've actually told you those things. And it makes it that much harder to believe that you could ever be something else, and I'm telling you, you can absolutely be something else. And not only that you have a God who's anxiously awaiting your restoration. 

‍

And, so, I love being able to, in a very simple, practical life-giving way, say to other people, "Hey there, there is a living God, and there's actually a way that you can interact with Him that will make your life strong and make it work."

‍

Even if that means periods of pain, and periods of weakness, and periods of failure, and all of that kind of stuff, too, you are with Him in it. And, therefore, your life has a strength, and a gravity, that you can never access without Him. That is my deepest heart for this book is to make the way plain, because I don't think it's hard. I think when we come to Jesus when we fill ourselves with His Word, and we actually do what it says. 

‍

Suddenly, you become someone new, and you look back over your shoulder and go, "What in the world? I'm different than I used to be." And I don't know anyone with a faith that I love and respect, who even if they use different words, doesn't actually practice these three practices. 

‍

Alison: Yes.

‍

Alli: That doesn't actually do these three things. 

‍

Alison: I love that, Alli, it's such a great message, you do such a good job of weaving this realness into it. This realness of your own life. It's called How to Stay Standing, tell our listeners how to get a hold of the book, and how to Get a hold of your resources? Some of the things that they can find when they look you up. 

‍

Alli: Yes, so you can find How to Stay Standing anywhere that books are available. There will also be an audiobook, so if you don't like to read visually, you'll be able to get the audiobook as well. And if you go to my website, it's theallipatterson.com or you follow me on social media. I often post other Bible studies I've created, free resources like prayer guides, audio guides. 

‍

I love creating resources to help you connect with God through Scripture. I love doing short studies that are really easy to digest and easy ways to connect with God, through Scripture and prayer. There are lots of things that are super accessible, if you check out my website or follow me on social, there's always stuff there.

Alison: Your energy and your vitality is just super infectious. And there's a living witness to what you're describing with words, so I appreciate that. I appreciate you coming here. And I want to just close, Alli, with these questions that I ask all my guests. What or who is bringing out the best of you right now? And what needs or desires are you working to protect?

‍

Alli: Okay, similar answer on one front to both. What brings out the best of me is when I carve out time to be alone. I desperately need silence. Sometimes if I sit in the quiet, I feel silence is healing. It ministers to me in a way that nothing else does, and that brings out the best of me, and I do have to fight for that. 

‍

As you might imagine, I'm a mom of four kids, and I have a job, and I have a book, and all kinds of other things going on with that. So I have to fight for that, and I have to protect my need for that. And I've learned to stop apologizing for that. I will not apologize for needing that. 

‍

And who brings out the best of me? For sure, right now, it is my husband and my four kids, because I cannot look at them and not be grateful to God for what He's done in my life. I mean, as you might imagine, my marriage has had bumps because of our early days. It is not an easy road; we have not traveled an easy road. You don't go through a story like that, and get out unscathed. 

‍

But when I think, "Wow, I love him and we have fun together, 23 years later, this is incredible." And the kids are just the fruit of that as well. And, so, I think when I am around them, I'm usually bathed in gratitude for it because I'm very clear that I didn't actually deserve it. That it all came to me by the grace of God and He is responsible for that. So that's how I feel when I'm around them. So they're my favorite humans and they, definitely, bring out the best of me. 

‍

Alison: I love that. Again, the gift of rock bottom is gratitude, and when we turn toward God and allow Him to reshape and reclaim our lives. So what a beautiful way to end.

‍

Thank you so much, Alli, for just sharing your story, sharing your wisdom, creating these resources. I so appreciate you and all that you're putting into the world and look forward to just all the ways you're going to minister to and bless so many people. 

Alli: Thank you. Thanks for having me on. I treasure our friendship, so I really appreciate you. Thank you

‍

Today on The Best of You Podcast, we're talking about detoxing from the false beliefs that keep us stuck in unhealthy patterns of relating to other people. These hidden messages are sneaky. They might sound true in the moment, but they keep us from the healthy two-way relationships we need. I also answer your questions, and provide sample scripts for communicating in healthy ways with other people.

‍

Here's what we discuss:

1. Examples of toxic thinking

2. How it contaminates our relationships

3. An example of toxic thinking from the Bible

4. How to re-frame toxic thoughts

‍

Plus, I answer your questions:

How do I communicate with other people about what I'm going through?

Can spiritual bypassing become a form of numbing?

‍

Thanks to our sponsor:

• Organifi -Go to www.organifi.com/bestofyou and use code BESTOFYOU for 20% off your order today.

Music by Andy Luiten/Sound editing by Kelly Kramarik

While Dr. Cook is a counselor, the content of this podcast and any of the products provided by Dr. Cook are not specific counseling advice nor are they a substitute for individual counseling. The content and products provided on this podcast are for informational purposes only.

‍

Resources

• For more on The 7 Red Flags of Friendship and Spiritual Bypassing, see Chapters 8 and 10 of The Best of You, by Dr. Alison Cook
• Episode 1: What Is Narcissism Really?
• Episode 2: What Should I Know About Gaslighting?
• Episode 35: Change is Hard–Why We All Need to Detox From Unhealthy Dependencies From Time to Time
• Episode 36: An Update on My Social Media Detox & How to Create Boundaries With Toxic Distractions, Numbing, & Unhealthy Coping Tactics
• 2 Samuel 11-12
• John 14:15-17
• Galatians 5:22-23
• Philippians 4:7
• Resources for support

Today's episode is a real-time update on my own social media detox and how what started as a pause revealed a deeper need. I also lay out a practical framework for you to use in sorting out the distractions, numbing, or unhealthy coping tactics in your life and how to replace them with the life-giving, soul-nourishing things you actually crave.

‍

Here's what we cover:

1. What my own detox revealed about my use of social media

2. A roadmap for how to pinpoint areas in your own life that might need a detox

3. Healthy ways to escape, soothe, or find comfort

4. What is the difference between a fast and a detox?

5. Can I find a healthy balance with certain distractions?

‍

Thanks to our sponsors:

• Organifi -Go to www.organifi.com/bestofyou and use code BESTOFYOU for 20% off your order today.
• Brooklinen-Visit Brooklinen.com today and use code BESTOFYOU to save.
• Hiya Health-Visit hiyahealth.com/BESTOFYOU and get your kids the full-body nourishment they need to grow into healthy adults.

Music by Andy Luiten/Sound editing by Kelly Kramarik

While Dr. Cook is a counselor, the content of this podcast and any of the products provided by Dr. Cook are not specific counseling advice nor are they a substitute for individual counseling. The content and products provided on this podcast are for informational purposes only.

‍

Resources

• Also in this series: Episode 35: Change is Hard-Why We All Need to Detox From Unhealthy Dependencies From Time to Time
• For more on how to "Start with Yes" see Chapter 6 of The Best of You, by Dr. Alison Cook
• So Worth Loving
• 1 Corinthians 10:23
• Matthew 4:1-11
• My Tech-Wise Life, by Andy Crouch
• The Tech-Wise Family, by Andy Crouch
• Psalm 16:6-8‍
• Resources for support

‍

Transcript

‍

Alison: Hey everyone, and welcome back to The Best of You podcast. I am so glad you're back and that we get to continue this conversation, about how to detox, specifically, how to detox mentally, emotionally, and spiritually. When we've cluttered up our lives with sometimes even good things. 

‍

So, today's episode is a first for me, but I need to share with you a real-time update on my own detox, from the last few months. It directly relates to this topic, and I want to share that update with you as an example, as an illustration, of what can happen if you decide to remove something, from your life, that you suspect might be causing, unnecessary, clutter, noise, even toxicity in your own nervous system, in your own mind, in your own heart, in your own soul. 

‍

So I've got a real-time example from my own life, and then I'm going to give you some really practical resources and tips for you, as you seek to, potentially, detox from something. And, more importantly, move toward the life-giving, nourishing good things your heart, mind, and soul need.

‍

All right, so here's my update. Sometimes a detox is a brief timeout to reboot and reset, and then you pick that thing back up. 

So it's an opportunity to hit the reset button so that you can gain clarity or wisdom, about how you use that thing. But then you pick that thing back up from a healthier place; with moderation, with perspective, with healthier boundaries around it. 

‍

However, sometimes a detox reveals a deeper dependency, that it's going to need a more substantive shift. It becomes less like a reset, like a pause, "I paused, I got some perspective. I got some clarity. Now, I'm just, basically, going back to my life as it was, but it was really helpful to have that time away from that thing."

‍

It's less of that and more like a shift. And when I think of a shift, I think of a ship, like a big ship, out on the ocean where it's been going in one direction. And ever so slowly and ever so steadily, it actually needs to shift the entire body of that ship to move in a different direction. 

‍

And this is what I mean by a more substantive shift, that suddenly this detox revealed a dependency. That actually once you remove it, it's going to change the whole way that ship had been going. Such that even if it's a tiny degree, it's not like it's doing a U-turn, it's just changing a couple of degrees to the left or the right. 

‍

It requires a more substantial change all the way through, again, your mind, your heart, your soul, and your nervous system. And you may not have even known it going into that detox. You're going to need, completely, different boundaries with the thing from which you detoxed. And that, it turns out, is what the case is with me. As I mentioned in last week's episode, episode 35, I started a detox from social media in November of 2022, about six weeks ago. 

‍

This was an information overload detox. I was noticing that when I went on social media, nothing really good was coming from it. Instead, I was just noticing this clamor, this din in my heart, soul, and mind. 

‍

So I took the time off, as I discussed last week, and really did notice a change. Noticed a slowing down, a calmer nervous system, just a lot of health that came from that time away. And I was super grateful for it, but I still wasn't considering the possibility that I wouldn't go back on. I just assumed that once the six weeks were up, I would resume my regular practices with social media. That had been the plan. 

‍

So last week I scheduled my first post. It was in conjunction with the last week's podcast episode. I scheduled it through a third-party app that I use. I work with two amazing women through an organization called So Worth Loving. They design my words, it's my words but I am terrible with design, as I've mentioned on this podcast. 

‍

I'm great with words, not so great with making things pretty. So they take my words and make them pretty and post them through this app. So I don't have to go on social media to create the post and schedule it. 

‍

So I'd scheduled the post, and I knew that it was coming out on Thursday. I had deleted all of my social media apps off my phone. 

And every day, leading up to Thursday, knowing that post was going to come out, I could not bring myself to put those apps back on my phone. I just couldn't do it. Nothing in my body wanted to do that. So the post went out Thursday morning, many of you saw it, but I still had yet to download the apps and go back on social media myself. 

‍

Now this created some tension inside of me and I want to pause here, just as a side note. A lot of people, especially bigger names and brands that have hundreds of thousands of people following them. A lot of those people pay other people to post for them. They may use a service to post for them, it's very common. That's not an uncommon thing. 

‍

Typically, you might think you're interacting with a celebrity or even an author, but a lot of times it is someone else. And some people disclose this by noting, in the comments, that they're writing on behalf of the person, that they're part of their team.

‍

Sometimes you don't know. There's nothing wrong with that per se. I've just never done it that way. I've pretty much done it myself. So if it's me on there commenting or interacting with you, it's me, and that feels important to me. That's a part of me feeling authentic. So it felt very weird, to me, to have a post out there and not actually be on the app. 

‍

And, again, it's a minor thing, I don't think anybody has a problem with that. But, to me, that brought up some tension inside because that's not how I've ever done it. But I could not get myself to download those apps. I just didn't want to go back on. 

‍

It was fine with me that the scheduled post had posted. I wanted people to know about the podcast episode. I want to use that as a place for people to know about the work that I'm doing. I'm excited about that. I want people to listen to the podcast. I want you to share it with friends. I want it to be available to people. I believe in it. But I just couldn't get myself to download those apps. 

‍

So, finally, I decided to test it. I went in through my browser, on my computer, instead of through the app. So this is actually a way that I had created, sort of an obstacle for myself. I'll talk about that more later in the episode. But when you have a square on your phone. Your phone is with you all the time. It's just so easy to click that square, you're immediately in that portal. There's no obstacle to it. 

‍

But by not having the apps on my phone, I had to go to my computer, log into my browser, put the URL on my browser to get the feed up on my screen. It's a lot harder to do, and that's one of the ways that I have created boundaries with it in the past. 

‍

So I used my browser to log on, on Thursday, to test it out. Talking myself through it, this inner tension, a part of me being like, "I need to be on social media, I said, I was going to go back. But do you really have to go back? Why do you have to go back?" 

‍

There was all this inner noise inside of me. And the first thing I saw was a picture of a friend. Someone I love, someone I have only positive feelings toward. 

And I instantly noticed my nervous system amp up. It felt like a hit of adrenaline, and all that noise started to swirl back into my mind. The clamor, the comparison, the criticism, the competitiveness, just the noise.

‍

And I just immediately got back out, I couldn't continue. I tried it again, later that day, this time I saw someone whose podcast I listened to. I don't know this person in real life, I love their podcast, listen to it almost every week. But just seeing the post on social media, it was like my whole nervous system just froze. It's like, "I can't do it. I'm out."

‍

Something about just the level, the sheer level, of noise, of information, of data. The dancing swirling lights of all that comes with the Feed, with the social media Feed, just obliterated that sense of calm in about 30 seconds or less by just simply looking. 

‍

And other deeper voices started to emerge. "I don't want that."

‍

"I don't need that."

‍

"Why do I need that?"

‍

"Do I have to have that?"

‍

"Do I have to be here?"

‍

"Why can't I just say no?" Now, spoiler alert, my word of the year, this year, is no. I need to give myself permission to say no to things. It's not a word I like to use. In fact, I have friends who tease me that if I say, "Maybe" that means no. I hate saying no. So I'm learning how to say no. All of this was stirred up inside of me, Thursday.

‍

And as much as every part of me was like, "No, I don't have to do this." Other parts of me were nervous. When you're an author, you're supposed to show up online. You're supposed to have a presence. 

‍

But where was that pressure really coming from? It hasn't come from you all, my listeners. Every time I've talked about boundaries I've needed to set or every time I've posted about needing to take a break from social media. The people who follow my work, you all, this community, people who are on my email list are nothing but supportive saying, "I get it."

‍

"Me too, I've had to go off social media."

‍

"Good for you, do what you need to do."

‍

Nobody in my real life or in this community has given me pressure to be on social media. But somewhere in my mind was this idea of "This is what I'm supposed to do. I'm an author, I'm a podcast host, I should have a presence on social media."

‍

And I began to realize that this particular detox was not a simple reset. This was going to have to be a shift. It was going to create more change than I originally thought. And I began to think about new boundary lines. 

‍

Now, this is real-time, this happened in about three days, but I began to take my own advice. I talk about it in chapter six from The Best of You, "When you realize you're going to need new boundary lines, to start with, 'Yes'". And the big question that I needed to be able to answer yes to is what can I say yes to?

‍

I want to stay connected with people. I want to stay connected with the people who follow my work. I want to stay connected with friends. I want to stay connected with colleagues, with other thought leaders who I enjoy. I want to stay connected. That was a clear yes. But on the other hand, my body is saying, "No, I cannot do this scrolling." And it really was very clear. It was just the dancing, blaring lights of all the information overload that I had to say no to. 

‍

So over the course of the few days, what became very clear to me, and it was really a result of the whole two months, was, oh, my goodness, what I learned was, I love this podcast. I love hosting it. I love preparing for it. I love engaging your questions that you send me through the Doc, through comments, through emails. 

‍

I love the private book club community we just started on Facebook, it was life-giving to me. I enjoyed logging on. It was easy for me to set healthy boundaries for it. I have some help doing it. It didn't feel like information overload. I love reaching out to friends I've actually made online, personally. I have other ways that I can get to those people. I could still stay connected in all of those ways. 

‍

None of those things stirred up the same noise, the clamor, the dancing lights of too much. It wasn't the people or the community. It wasn't the ideas, it was the scrolling Feed, that never ending dancing, blaring lights, ping, ping, ping, so much overload to my system. 

‍

It's just too much for the way God has made me. It's too much for the way my nervous system is wired. There are good things about being someone who's highly sensitive, highly intuitive, highly empathetic. Highly responsible to the information I take in. Those are good qualities, and they are not super conducive to a really active social media Feed. It's too much for me. 

‍

My body wasn't saying no to the good aspects of connecting in various ways. But it was saying no to the cacophony and clamor of noise in my Feed. Of getting all that information in one blast, without any boundaries. On when I could receive it, and pace it, and be fully present to the information I was receiving in a way that honors both the other person and honors me. That allows me to show up, authentically, in the way that God made me. 

‍

I had lunch with a friend, over Christmas, and she said it much more simply. She's not someone who's on social media a lot, but she said one day she realized, "I often have this ugh feeling in my mind, heart, and soul. And when I took time to trace that, ugh, feeling back, so frequently, it went back to something I saw on social media. Either something that just triggered me or something that I now knew that I didn't have any ability to help with." Yes, that was me. 

There's a lot of hard things in life we've got to learn to respond to wisely, that we don't have control over. This was something I do have control over. So I'm making a shift, the shift in real time is that you'll see posts from me, on social media, from time to time, much less frequently. These posts will relate to this podcast or things I've written that I want you to know about.

‍

But I won't be hanging out on my Feed personally. 

‍

This simple boundary, it's small but it's something that will, exponentially, improve my own emotional, mental, and spiritual health. 

‍

Healing work is almost always boundaries work.You figure out what you want to say yes to. And that backs you into the very clear thing that you can set a boundary with, to keep your own emotional, mental, and spiritual health intact. 

‍

[00:17:10] < Music >

‍

Brooklinen makes shifting seasons something to look forward to. Find everything you need for a home refresh with award-winning sheets, comforters, and all the accessories in between. I love crawling into a cozy bed, at the end of a long day. It's a way to care for myself and to prepare for a good night's sleep. Brooklinen and only trusts the best materials to help you unwind. Count on the best weaves and construction, for favorites you can keep coming back to.

‍

Their comforters come in three weights; lightweight, all-season, and ultra-warm to make sure you get exactly what you need at bedtime. And if you're looking to stock up on essentials for your space. Check out Brooklinen's bundles where you can get bed bath or both and save money doing it.

‍

For a limited time, Brooklinen is offering 15% off comforters. If you're listening after the sale, visit brooklinen.com today and use code BESTOFYOU for $20 off plus free shipping. That's b-r-o-o-k-l-i-n-e-n.com code BESTOFYOU.

‍

Typical children's vitamins are, basically, candy in disguise. Filled with two teaspoons of sugar, unhealthy chemicals, and other junk growing kids don't need. That's why Hiya was created. This pediatrician-approved super-powered chewable vitamin, Hiya fills in the common gaps in modern children's diets to provide the full body nourishment our kids need with a yummy taste they love.

‍

Formulated with the help of nutritional experts, Hiya is pressed with a blend of 12 organic fruits and veggies, then supercharged with 15 essential vitamins and minerals, including vitamin D, B12, C, zinc, folate, and many others to help support immunity, energy, brain function, mood, concentration, teeth, bones, and more. 

‍

It's non GMO, vegan, dairy-free, allergy free, gelatin free, nut-free and everything else you can imagine. Hiya is designed for kids of all age and sent straight to your door, so parents have one less thing to worry about. 

‍

We've worked out a special deal with Hiya for their bestselling children's vitamin. You'll receive 50% off your first order. To claim this deal, you must go to hiyahealth.com/bestofyou, it's not available on their regular website. Go to h-i-y-a-h-e-a-l-t-h.com/bestofyou and get your kids the full body nourishment they need.

‍

[00:19:43] < Music >

‍

Alison: I want to walk you through a map for how you might engage your own work of detoxing. Especially in this technology information stuff category. Just this stuff that clutters up our hearts, souls, and mind. Last week I taught you to ask yourself the question, "What is the cost?"

‍

Whenever you are trying to make a change in your life, what is the cost?

‍

This week, as you think about getting specific about how to slow down your nervous system. How to detox or declutter some of the noise in your life, that is keeping you from calm, clear, grounded, brave ways of showing up in your everyday life. I want to give you a framework; number one, name it. Name the thing that you suspect, at this moment in time, is keeping you distracted, cluttered, even in some unhealthy ways of coping. 

‍

Now, when you name something, you do so without shame. You name it without shame. For me November, early November, it's social media, I see it. Every time I hit that app, nothing good happens. So name it without shame. 

‍

Get really granular about it. Is it the app on your phone? Is it a habit of buying things? What is the portal into this clutter, this distraction? This dependence on something else that's taking you off or away from this beautiful life God has for you?

‍

Imagine that ship, that's just a little bit off, maybe, it's not even a U-turn. But it just is a little bit off, what's that thing? Just take a moment, reflect on it, pray about it, and name it. What is that thing that is stirring up any of those three Cs of clamor, of comparison, of criticism, of yourself or others, of competitiveness in an unhealthy way inside of you?

‍

Number two, frame it. So we're going to name it, then we're going to frame it. And when I think of framing it, I think of the four sides of a picture frame. We're going to try to get the big picture here, to get some context on this thing. And the four sides of that picture frame are four question words. Number one, why? Why do you depend on it? 

‍

Maybe you're bored, tired, sad, needing a legitimate escape. Maybe you're feeling stressed, overwhelmed. And, so, it's so easy just to grab that quick fix, instant feel-good thing. Why do you depend on it? 

‍

Number two, when do you turn to it? That'll also give you a clue to your why. Is that at night; when you're tired, when you're lonely, when you're stressed, when you're worried? When are you turning to it? So there's the why and the when, and see if that'll help you frame this thing that you're wanting to detox from.

‍

Number three, how? How do you access it? Is it an app? Is it technology? Is it a phone? Is it a store that you go into? Is it a friend that you call that isn't actually healthy? We're going to get into that next week, unhealthy relational dependencies. 

‍

How does this come up for you? 

‍

Is it a location? 

‍

Is it a group that you're a part of? That you're just noticing stirs up a clamor, a cacophony inside of you, that isn't helpful to you. 

‍

And number four, this is key, what healthier option might be available to you? Because, as we discussed last week, these things, these distractions, these numbing devices, these coping strategies are serving a purpose. We need something, and parts of us have learned to rely on this thing to meet that need. But there might be a better way to meet that need.

‍

For example, over the past two months when I was not on social media, my body started to shift, almost, imperceptively to me. I've noticed it far more in the last week. When I've realized I don't want to be scrolling because I've discovered, oh, my goodness, so much more life-giving beautiful, healthy things for my system, instead of scrolling mindlessly.

‍

I began to recover a joy in books, imagine that reading a book before bed. Good movies, I hadn't watched a movie in so long and a really good, beautiful, well-told story that could transport me for an hour, 90 minutes, when I needed to decompress. When I needed my mind to log off in a healthy way, I could lose myself in a story through a movie, through a book, that actually gave me that escape that I needed.

‍

I began to remember the way that I used to rely on thinkers, from time to time. By getting their book, or by listening to a podcast, or watching a documentary. I can pace the information intake in those ways. I could both hear and be heard, with friends, when I picked up the phone versus engaging them through social media. And I began to think about, and I want to offer this to you today, three primary categories, for this question of what is a healthier option available to you? 

‍

The first is beauty, movies, art, nature, music. These are all forms of beauty. We need beauty. We need to be transported into other places in our minds, sometimes. Animals are another thing that can be beautiful, I've put animals under nature. Those of you who get outside with animals, with horses, with dogs, whatever it is, these nourish us and they give us healthy escape. 

Category number two, connection, talking to friends in a healthy way about what we're feeling, about what's worrying us. Finding a group, it's hard when you're lonely. It's hard to get out there and do the work of finding a therapist, finding a support group, finding a small group. But maybe that's the good work that our hearts, souls, and minds need. 

‍

And then category number three, rest. Because so much of these distraction, and numbing, and coping things, that sneak in, come in when we're tired and we need rest. And scrolling through a Feed is not giving my soul, heart, and mind the rest that I need. 

‍

And I don't know what it is for you, but I do want to say this rest is not just sleeping. It's not just taking a nap. It's quiet. It's a calm nervous system. It's awareness. It's noticing what feels restful to you. It might be a slow walk. It might be dancing, moving your body in a fun, creative way. There's a million things it could be, when we slow ourselves down enough to pay attention.

‍

So we're naming the thing that we need a break from. We're framing it; why we use it, when we use it, how we use it, and what might be a healthier option instead of it, at least, for a little while. And then number three, we're going to tame it. And by taming it, we go into action. We've done the pre-work, we've thought about it, we've named it. We have these coping tactics for a reason. So it's going to take a minute to see, and discover, what those good things are that you need.

‍

So, now, it's time we've backed into it to remove the item for a specific period of time. Now, if you've relied on this thing for a while, go slowly, maybe just start with a day. Say, "I'm going to see what a day is like, and I'm going to do this differently." Just one day.

‍

Maybe you start with one week. Just one week, "I'm going to see what my life is like without this thing I've named. And I'm going to experiment, and notice, and ask myself what feels different, what feels good?" It takes a little bit to notice that. And then at the end of that set period of time. You're going to ask yourself, "Is this something I can use in moderation, in a healthy way?"

‍

Or "Is this something I need to continue to take a break from? This might be something that isn't healthy, for me, at all, and I'm going to need more time away from it."

‍

As Paul says in Corinthians, "Everything is permissible, but not everything is beneficial. Everything is permissible, but not everything is edifying." This is about learning moderation, and this is also about discovering the deeper root of comfort, of pleasure, of real nourishment that our souls crave.

‍

It's about uncovering those cheap substitutes and uncovering the goodness that we all need. It's going to be different for all of us. It's going to be different for all of us. For me, it happened to be the dancing, blaring lights of social media. It may be something different for you. 

‍

Now, I want to close today by responding to a couple of your questions. Number one, Michelle asked, "What is the difference between a fast and a detox?" And this is a great question. I'm so glad you asked it. 

‍

A fast is really a spiritual practice. It's a giving up something to remind yourself to turn toward God. Jesus fasted from food for 40 days in the wilderness. He took away a good thing, a good source of nourishment, as a way to grow spiritually deeper and deeper in His dependence on God the Father. 

‍

So when we fast, we tend to model after Jesus. Typically, it's food, different people have different ideas about that. But the idea is you remove something, primarily, to seek prayer and seek greater dependence on God. So there's an overlap there. 

‍

We want to include God in this process of a detox. Absolutely, this has been a deeply spiritual journey for me. But a detox is a little bit different; you're identifying something that's a distraction. A source of numbing, an unhealthy dependence, an unhealthy way of coping. In order to discover a healthier way of finding the comfort, the beauty, the connection, the real rest your heart, soul, mind, and body need. 

‍

So a detox is about learning to realign yourself, your whole system, so that you are moving in the right direction. Imagine that ship, that is just subtly gotten off course and it needs to reorient itself in a healthier, better way. 

‍

Another question that came in from Lisa, "When I think about detoxing, I think about cutting something out of my life entirely. But what if the thing isn't actually bad and is possibly even a good thing. But it's the way the thing is being used that is causing the problem."

‍

It's a great question, Lisa gave the example of exercise. I know folks who can depend, in unhealthy ways, on cleaning. But it can really become a distraction for people, some otherwise good things. And I would just offer you some thoughts on moderation. 

‍

One of the tips I would offer you is this idea of just getting into that framing. The why, the when, the how. The why, the when, and the how you're using that thing? And then what's something you could turn toward instead? 

‍

So let's say you do the exercise, or you do the good thing, or maybe you're on social media. And you do that for the prescribed amount of time that feels healthy and right to you. But then you're still tempted to do it above and beyond that for XYZ reasons. What's something else you could do instead? And that's going to depend a lot on that, "Why". 

‍

Is it because you're tired? 

‍

Is it because you are sad? 

‍

Is it because you are worried? 

‍

Is that why you're turning to that thing more than you should? And if that's the case, think of those categories. What are other outlets for this worry, this stress, this tiredness, that I'm feeling that helps me to connect myself into God. Connection, do I need comfort? 

Do I need the comfort of a listening ear?

‍

And then rest; do I need to actually downshift my nervous system instead of up shifting it? 

‍

Do I actually maybe need to take a slow walk? To invite a friend to walk with me so I don't overdo it?

‍

So, again, getting back to that framing so that you learn what is at the root of it, and what is something you could replace that impulse with? So, as we close, I want to offer you just a couple of practical tools. I recommend two books by Andy Crouch one is called; My Tech-Wise Life: Growing Up and Making Choices in a World of Devices. 

‍

And the other is his book, The Tech-Wise Family: Everyday Steps for Putting Technology in Its Proper Place. Those are two great resources if you are struggling with information overload, and need to set some healthy boundaries with it. 

‍

I also want to just close with the words of the psalmist who said, "The boundary lines have fallen for me in pleasant places; surely I have a delightful inheritance. I will praise the Lord, who counsels me; even at night, my heart instructs me. I have set the Lord always before me. Because he is at my right hand, I will not be shaken." 

‍

Take the Lord with you into this journey and the boundary lines will fall in pleasant places. I am amazed at what God has done in my life through a simple decision I made in mid-November. There's more to it that I haven't even scratched the surface of it, on this podcast episode. 

‍

God honors our small, brave steps. He will honor a small, brave step you take to move away from what distracts you and toward what brings you the good things, the nourishment, the comfort, the delight, the joy, the real nourishment, your mind, heart, soul, and body crave.

‍

[00:36:02] < Outro >

‍

Alison: Thank you for joining me for this episode of The Best of You. Be sure to check out the show notes for any resources and links mentioned in the show. You can find those on my website at dralisoncook.com. That's Alison with one L- cook.com.

‍

Before you forget, I hope you'll follow the show now so that you don't miss an episode. And I'd love it if you go ahead and leave a review, it helps so much to get the word out. I look forward to seeing you back here next Thursday. And remember, as you become the best of who you are, you honor God, you heal others, and you stay true to your God-given self.

Today on The Best of You Podcast, we're digging into the hidden dependencies that creep in and keep us from the good things we need. The New Year tends to be a time of hope. We sense the possibility of change and are energized to set goals. But so often we move forward without first addressing the hidden dependencies that thwart our best efforts.

‍

Here's what we discuss in today's episode:

1. Why we all need to "detox" from time to time

2. Examples of "good things" we can start to depend on in unhealthy ways

3. The role of pleasure, comfort, and healthy escape

4. The essential question to ask yourself before you consider introducing any change

5. What I learned by going offline for 6 weeks

‍

Thanks to our sponsors:

• This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp -Go to www.betterhelp.com/bestofyou and use code BESTOFYOU for 10% off your first month!
• Organifi -Go to www.organifi.com/bestofyou and use code BESTOFYOU for 20% off your order today!

Music by Andy Luiten/Sound editing by Kelly Kramarik

While Dr. Cook is a counselor, the content of this podcast and any of the products provided by Dr. Cook are not specific counseling advice nor are they a substitute for individual counseling. The content and products provided on this podcast are for informational purposes only.

‍

Resources

• Detox - " a regimen or treatment intended to remove toxins and impurities from the body." (Merriam Webster Dictionaries).
• The Weight of Glory, by C.S. Lewis
• John 12:24-25
• Ecclesiastes 3
• Too Much Information, Too Little Time: How the Brain Separates Important from Unimportant Things in Our Fast-Paced Media World
• The surprising, science-backed value of boredom at work‍
• Resources for support

‍

Transcript

‍

Alison: Hey everyone and Happy New Year, and welcome back to The Best of You podcast. I'm so glad you're here to join me this 2023. I love the new year. I love the opportunity to look back and also look ahead. 

‍

Personally, I'm coming off of almost two months of being completely offline. I started with going off social media, but it really led to so much more awareness in my own life. Which led me right into the series that we're going to launch today. Three Ways That You Might Need to Consider Detoxing Your Heart, Soul, and Mind. In order to create space for the good things you crave. 

‍

Before we dive in, I want to remind you that I am hosting a free, six-week book club. Based on my new book, The Best of You, it starts Monday the ninth. We'll go through two chapters a week.

‍

You'll get daily prompts to discuss in community, with hundreds of others, hundreds of you have already signed up. 

And I will be joining you live each week with bonus content, as well as to answer questions. So you can find all the information you need to sign up in the episode show notes for this episode or at my website; dralisoncook.com/book.

‍

It's going to be a great opportunity to go through the book together. In fact, if you'd like to read the book with your friends. If you have an existing book club, or small group that you want to bring into this private community with you. My publisher has set up a special page, just for this group, where you can get two free books plus, free shipping, when you buy three. 

‍

So that's, essentially, five books for the price of three. That's 40% off the price, and you'll find the link for that deal in the episode show notes, or when you go sign up at dralisoncook.com/book.

‍

All right, let's dive into Three Ways to detox your mental, emotional, and spiritual health. So as I said, this topic is coming directly out of my own life, these past few months. I've really been sort of systematically decluttering aspects of my life since mid-November. 

‍

This is a practice I've circled back to, regularly, in my own life over the last decade. And I want to share with you some of the things I've learned. So to start off with; what is a detox? Well, Merriam-Webster, the dictionary, defines a detox as, "A regimen intended to remove toxins from the body." Now, typically, this term is used in the context of a substance dependence. 

‍

So for example, if you're someone who has struggled with any sort of dependence on alcohol or a drug, you know what it's like when you finally remove that substance. Or maybe you've loved someone that has gone through something like that, it's really hard. 

‍

Your body has learned to depend on that substance. So when you remove it, your body starts to want it even more. You need a period of time to allow your body to adjust to not having that substance anymore. As you, simultaneously, are developing healthier ways of coping. 

‍

Because, here's the thing, whether it's a substance or whether it's another distraction. And I'm going to get into the other ways that many of us, who don't deal with substance abuse. But deal with other emotional, spiritual, and mental coping tactics and distractions, whatever the source of it is, we cope for a reason. 

‍

Even when we use unhealthy strategies. Even when we rely on things that aren't good for us or might even be harming us in subtle or not so subtle ways. So this idea of a detox is a metaphor, for I'm not going to be talking about substance detoxing. That's a different podcast episode. 

‍

I'm talking about what happens, in our lives mentally, emotionally, and spiritually, when we start to depend on unhealthy ways of coping. Change, any change is a two-front approach. It involves number one, disentangling from the old way of coping. The way that's not serving you anymore. While, simultaneously, number two, introducing new ways of healthier and more, truly, nourishing coping.

‍

We all need to cope, but we slowly, and subtly, can pick up some of these old ways that don't serve us and that aren't healthy for us anymore. Let me give you some examples. 

‍

All right, these are the most common ways that I see in my life, and in the lives of the people with whom I work, and in the research that I've done. That we slowly start to depend on unhealthy ways of coping. 

‍

Number one, we can turn to food as a way to numb our feelings.

‍

Number two, we can escape or distract ourselves through the incessant accessibility we have to entertainment, to social media. To all of the, readily, just at a touch of a fingertip, ways that we have to access other worlds on our phones, any devices that we have. 

‍

Number three, through what we often call over-functioning. And by that what I mean is using your, quote-unquote, high-functioning skills. Such as pleasing others, meeting needs, getting your task list done. 

‍

All of these quote-unquote high-functioning ways can become distractions. They can become unhealthy coping tactics. Where we start to depend on this hit that we get from helping someone else, from getting through a to-do list. From getting the work done and avoid the real nourishment that we actually need. 

‍

And number four, another really quick-fix distraction that we can start to turn toward is overspending. It's the credit card, it's the things. Whether they're inexpensive things or expensive things, whatever it is. Where we can clutter up our lives with that quick hit of a thing, that comes in and just makes us feel a little bit better in the moment. 

‍

Now, listen, none of these things are bad in and of themselves. That's why this is hard. We need good food. We need to escape from time to time through entertainment. Social media can be really helpful, if you're going through a season of loneliness, and it's a way to feel more connected. 

‍

Pleasing others, meeting needs, getting the work done, good things. Even purchasing things, creating order in your home, books. There's all sorts of ways, if you're artistic, there are ways that these are all serving a good purpose. 

‍

However, in this day and age of instant accessibility, we can get what we want whenever we want it. These things have a way of creeping in and starting to clutter up our hearts, minds, and souls. 

‍

We do need pleasure, we need creativity, we need comfort. We need to escape from time to time, again, these are not bad things. God designed us to experience pleasure, enjoyment, delight in the world around us. 

‍

But what I'm trying to tease out in this series is this. We have to become aware of the ways that even good things can become false substitutes, for the actual real nourishment we need.

These old ways of coping, of numbing, of even trying to comfort ourselves in the moment can be surprisingly sneaky, and surprisingly persistent. And this is why regular seasons of detox are needed. 

‍

C. S. Lewis has a wonderful quote, where he talks about desire. Because at the root of so much of these activities is desire. We want to feel better. We want more energy. We want to feel closer to other people. We want beauty. We want to create something good, these are good desires. And here's what C.S. Lewis says about when desire gets contaminated by too much of these counterfeit, these imposter substitutes. 

‍

"We are half-hearted creatures," Lewis says. "Fooling about with drink and sex and ambition when infinite joy is offered us. Like an ignorant child who wants to go on making mud pies, in a slum, because he cannot imagine what is meant by the offer of a holiday at the sea. We are far too easily pleased." That's from CS Lewis.

‍

And I want to reiterate that there's no shame in this. The mud pies that we've settled for, whether it's the food, or the social media scroll, or the buying of things, there's a good thing at the root of that. 

‍

And, so, we want to be gentle with ourselves. This series is not about becoming machines of rigid self-denial, that is not the goal. It's actually about learning to detox what's not working, what's a counterfeit, what's a cheap substitute. In order to discover the true nourishment, the true comfort, the deep-down good pleasure that your heart, soul, and mind actually were designed to enjoy. 

‍

This is a process, not a one-time event. And it gets at Jesus' words, in John 12, which I unpack in chapter two of The Best of You. This idea that dying to ourselves or denying ourselves, is not an end in and of itself. 

‍

It's denying old ways of doing things that aren't serving us anymore. That aren't giving us the life that God, actually, wants for us. So that we can move toward the new ways, the good things, that we all need and that we were designed to enjoy. 

‍

So why is it important to detox from time to time?

‍

Well, the truth is, as humans, we move toward entropy. Parts of us move toward health, we move toward healing. Other parts of us, easily, can begin to move back into those old, convenient, easy ways of coping. 

‍

We're human; there's no shame in this. We have a bent toward health. But we also have a bent toward picking up those distractions. Those unhealthy ways of coping, those unnecessary drags on our systems. That feel good in a moment but that do not lead us to the overall trajectory of health that we long for. 

‍

This idea of a detox has been going on for centuries. In fact, we've got built-in rhythms in our calendar year, for periods of time to abstain, or remove, or take away things that aren't serving us so that we can focus on God. So that we can focus on the good things that we need.

‍

One season is this new year. This is a season where we tend to set goals. We look for a fresh start. We try to execute on that dream, that goal, or that new habit. Another time of the year is Lent. Lent is that time between Ash Wednesday and Easter, when we tend to pull back from something, to deprive ourselves from something, in order to depend more on God. 

‍

And then there's a third season, the season of Advent, and this is the time between Thanksgiving and Christmas. It's another time when we tend to slow down. It gets darker around us, and it's a time to remember to quiet our souls.

‍

So these are just three different seasons. Whereas you engage this practice, they're seasons to pause, to pay attention, and to notice what has started to clutter up your heart, soul, and mind. And therefore is keeping you from the good things you need.

‍

And I think of the passage from Ecclesiastes three where Solomon reflects on this idea that, "There is a time for everything. And a season for every activity under the heavens. There's a time to be born and a time to die." Solomon says. "A time to plant and a time to uproot. A time to tear down and a time to build. A time to weep and a time to laugh."

‍

Now that list goes on, but I love this idea of a time for all things, and, particularly, as we think about the new year. We think about this time to build, usually. 

‍

This is the season when we want to build, we want to plant, we want to get healthier. We want to start that creative project. We have energy, we want take better care of ourselves. We want to start setting those healthier boundaries. This is that time of year when we're ready to go, we're ready to build. 

‍

But what I have learned is that unless we are also engaging those other seasons. When it's time to tear down. When it's time to uproot, if we don't address and uproot the hidden reasons, the hidden coping tactics, the hidden ways we've started to distract ourselves, to numb ourselves. If we don't detox from those things first, we won't get very far on the building, on the good things, that we crave.

‍

< Music >

‍

Alison: I want to propose to you, today, a very simple but profound question to ask yourself, to get to that route. Before you dive into that new goal, this new year, prepare yourself by answering this question; what is the cost? 

‍

These distractions, these coping strategies, these will surface as you consider that question. Here's an example of what I mean. Let's say you want to start exercising, it's the low-hanging fruit of New Year's goals. You want to start exercising great, but what stands in your way? 

‍

What's the cost of achieving that new goal? 

‍

If you say yes to exercising every day, this new year, you are going to have to say no to something else. There's a cost to that goal. You're going to need more time, for example, which means you're going to have to take that time from somewhere else. 

‍

You might need financial resources for that goal. Which means you're going to have to take that money from somewhere else. You might need to have a hard conversation with a spouse or with your family, about the space that you're going to need to make this happen. You might even have to inconvenience someone else. 

‍

Suddenly you're in this land of the cost, these old ways you've been coping. The ways you've been putting your time, your treasure, and even some of your talents into other things that aren't, necessarily, bad. But that are keeping you from this goal you really want to achieve. 

‍

As you consider the cost of this longing, this desire, this goal that you have, you'll start to notice where you might have some unhealthy or misplaced attachments. Parts of you are really excited. You're going to, finally, launch this new project, take care of your body, get healthier boundaries. But other parts of you are still stuck in the old ways that you've been coping. And you'll start to notice it when you ask yourself about that cost.

‍

"I don't want to take away time from that thing."

‍

"I don't want to disappoint those people."

‍

"I don't want to give up that coping tactic."

‍

What is it that you're going to have to shift out of, in order to move into this good thing, you need? This is what it means to count the cost. And as you count the cost, you're going to back your way right into the possibility of a detox. You're going to have to let go of, release, something you've been depending on. And it's going to create a little bit of a pinch even as you move toward this good thing you crave. 

‍

Now, in this series, I'm going to cover three areas of detox that, typically, come up when we want to make a good change. 

‍

Number one, we clutter up our lives with information overload. And what I mean by that is all the instantaneous access we have to ideas, to people, to entertainment. To massive amounts of information through the internet, our phones, and social media.

‍

Number two, we clutter up our lives with things. Now, I like to call these shiny objects. Your shiny objects might be one thing, mine might be another. It might be food, it might be buying things, it might be clothes, it might be expensive things, it might be cheap things. Whatever it is that you just fill up your space with, that gives you a hit. A feeling of relief in the moment, but that is cluttering up your heart, soul, and mind. 

‍

Number three, we clutter up our lives with harmful relationship patterns, with unhealthy dependencies on other people. We can start to thrive on the helping, the drama, the busyness. The pseudo connections that we've started to depend on that keep us from the real connections we crave. 

‍

Now, if you listen to that list information, things, and unhealthy dependences on other people, you can see why this is tricky because these are all good things. And they are also three areas that can sneak up on us in unhealthy ways.

‍

So for the last part of today's episode, I want to just touch on and give you an example of detoxing from information overload. There's some research that's been done, and many of you may have already heard this. 

‍

But an average person, living today, you and me, are processing so much information. It's the equivalent of 16 movies a day, through our TV, through our computers, through our phones, through social media, through the news. Through everything that's available to us instantaneously. 

‍

Every year, this increases about 5% more than the previous year. And just to give you a check on that 500 years ago, the amount of information that you and I absorb in a day, 

would have been what a highly-educated human would've consumed in a lifetime. It's just unbelievable what we digest and what bombards us every single day, in terms of information. 

‍

So I want to give you an example from my own life. In mid-November, I just knew that I needed to detox from social media. I knew I needed to take a break. I could tell there was an information overload in my life. My mind was just going and going, and I couldn't really get that spacious, centered, feeling that I need to be healthy spiritually, mentally, and emotionally. 

‍

And social media was the low-hanging fruit of detox. It was like, "It makes sense. I can tell I'm using it too much. I'm depending on it more than I like, and I just need to go off it. It's the holidays, it's advent." So I decided to take six weeks off. 

‍

And it was so interesting what I noticed. Because the first few days I was just aware of the quiet, of the absence of noise. Of sort of the flashing, dancing circus that my Feed had become, of bright lights, it's a positive Feed, it doesn't matter. 

‍

It was just all these good things, even good memes, helpful things that it was just too much. I couldn't process it all. And I noticed how much data I had absorbed about people I don't even know. It was so interesting that I knew things about other people's lives, people who weren't actually in my day-to-day life. And, so, over the first few days I just noticed that. It was just that curbing of the impulse to check my phone and noticing the quiet, and it took a minute. 

‍

Now, listen, it wasn't hard, it was just a couple of days. Some areas of detox are harder because it mostly felt good. It was just like, "Oh, man, this is what it feels like, again, to reconnect to my own inner life."

‍

But I began to notice that that checking of social medias had also bled into just checking of my phone. The instantaneousness of responding to a text versus taking my time to think through how I want to respond to someone's text.

‍

Even a friend, even a family member, all of the quickness. All of the information whirling around had led to this compulsive need meeting and compulsive like, "Got to get back to people." As opposed to taking my time to think through the best way to respond.

‍

I began to bask in that quiet, as I gave myself permission to slow down the information. To maybe not even read the text that comes in until I had the bandwidth to read it. To maybe not open the email until I had a moment to, actually, process it. And my whole nervous system began to calm down over the course of a few days. 

‍

Now, over the course of a few weeks; new, and good, and exciting things started to come in. I started to notice the ways that I hadn't been paying attention to the cues my body had been sending to me. I scheduled a few retreat days of silence, to really spend time journaling and listening to my body, to my emotions, to God. 

‍

I began to notice my creativity, my imagination, start to kick back in. Our imaginations kick in, frankly, when we're a little bored, there's good research to support this. If you're a little bored, you're on a walk, you're not sure what to think about, your imagination kicks in. 

‍

But when we're constantly checking our phones, checking the news, checking the latest headline. We're not creating that spaciousness for those good things, for that imagination. For those slow walks where we happen upon a thought, or a longing, or a desire, or an insight. That there's no other way we could find if we're not in nature. If we're not quieting our souls, if we're not quieting our minds. If we're not listening to the noise of quiet. I needed to hear my own thoughts, not everybody else's.

‍

Now, listen, there's a time for everything. There was a season when I went on social media where it saved me. I was so lonely, and you might be in a season like that. Where you are disconnected from relationships, from community, for whatever reason, and there's a way in which social media is keeping you connected to the world. And I want to honor that. There is a time, there is a season for that. 

‍

But for me, this was a season to pull back, to let go, to release, to detox from the amped up nervous system. The compulsivity, the accessibility, the fast, hustle, I needed to detox from that. And remind my heart, soul, mind, and my nervous system what quiet feels like. 

‍

What it feels like to be outside, taking a walk, hearing the crunch of the snow under my feet. Seeing the stars, as the twilight starts to descend. Feeling the tears well up in my eyes as a quiet moment overtakes me, and I am awe-struck by the beauty of God's creation, all around me. To feel the wild surge of aliveness, as I simply connected to myself in the presence of a loving, so real God.

‍

To feel those moments of connection to the people in my everyday life. To slow it down enough to stay present. When we don't set aside seasons to detox, from the fast swirl of information all around us, we get out of balance. We lose sight of the quiet and the goodness that comes from moments of simply being present. 

‍

Even if it means being present to some of the hard emotions that are inside of us. Numbing, distracting, constantly filling our minds with the noise and the din of the swirling dancing lights, of the internet, of our phones, of social media. Keeps us from the wild, purposeful, sometimes, scary, deeply important life God created us to live out in the here and the now, in the present moment. 

‍

We miss out on the joy and sometimes the messiness of relationship, and of good work. We miss out on the love and the tenderness that comes from connecting deeply to the Creator of our souls in prayer. And we miss out on the healing and the restoration that comes when we face the weariness of our hearts, souls, and even our bodies. 

‍

As you consider the swirl of information, the things that might be cluttering up your space or the unhealthy relationship patterns. I want you to consider the following questions this week. 

‍

What's one good thing you want to bring into your life this new year? 

‍

What's the cost of creating space for that good thing? 

‍

And as you consider your answers, to those questions, I want you to remind yourself of this. "Over the next week, I'm going to practice this new, good, thing that I want. And I'm going to be gentle with myself as I notice the old way I have to release."

‍

And then just stay curious in that tension between old and new. Stay compassionate towards yourself, as you notice the good thing you're moving toward and the old distraction, the old numbing, the old way you are gently learning to release. In order to create space for the good things you crave.

So many of us have had negative experiences with power. It feels like something to fear, something bad, or something to avoid all together.

‍

But what if God wants us to step into our power in a healthy way? And what if understanding the power we have is at the core of building healthy connections with other people? Today's episode on the podcast is straight from my heart and from my own tenuous relationship with power.

‍

Here's what I cover:

1. What is power?

2. Why we think of power as bad

3. What healthy power looks like

4. The problems that arise when we do not claim our own power

5. Different ways power is abused

6. Why women in particular tend to avoid their own power

7. The paradigm-shattering example of power in the birth of Jesus

‍

Thanks to our sponsors:

• Organifi -Go to www.organifi.com/bestofyou and use code BESTOFYOU for 20% off your order today!
• Download Abide Sleep and Pray Meditation and text my promo code BESTOFYOU to 22433 today to get 25% off!

Music by Andy Luiten/Sound editing by Kelly Kramarik

While Dr. Cook is a counselor, the content of this podcast and any of the products provided by Dr. Cook are not specific counseling advice nor are they a substitute for individual counseling. The content and products provided on this podcast are for informational purposes only.

‍

Resources

• Learn more about 6 Painful Parenting Patterns and 7 Friendship Red Flags in The Best of You, by Dr. Alison Cook
• To learn more about the parts of your soul, check out my book with Kimberly Miller, Boundaries for Your Soul
• Power - "the capacity or ability to direct or influence the behavior of others or the course of events." (Oxford Language Dictionaries).
• Resources for support
• Philippians 2:1-11
• Matthew 7:6

‍

Podcast Episodes Referenced:

• Episode 1: What Is Narcissism Really?
• Episode 2: What Should I Know About Gaslighting?
• Episode 24: Boundaries, the Spectrum of Toxicity, and a Note About Evil
• Episode 25: Types of No Part 1—How to Say “No” in Healthy Relationships
• ‍Episode 26: Types of "No" Part 2—How to Say "No" to Toxicity, The Real Meaning of Turn the Other Cheek & How to Form a Boundaries Committee

‍

Transcript

‍

Alison: Hey everyone, Merry Christmas. Welcome back to The Best of You podcast. This is our last episode of 2022, I'll be taking next week off. But I am so excited to be here with you today to wrap up this series on managing perceptions versus authentic connection.

‍

I have a topic today that I think feeds right into the Christmas story, and the topic is power. And, especially for women, there are so many ways we have a tenuous, tricky relationship with power. Both our own and the power that we see all around us, especially, when it's been misused, which seems so prevalent, especially today. 

‍

Before we get into the episode, I just want to thank all of you who filled out this survey. Hundreds of you took the time to fill that out and gave me such helpful information, as we think about the next year ahead. Several of you mentioned, in the survey, that you wanted a place to find the resources mentioned in each podcast episode.

‍

Well, I have such a place, so I wanted to take a moment and just remind you that every episode of this podcast has a page on my website. It's dralisoncook.com/podcast. All of the resources, books, Scriptures, and even the quotes mentioned in every podcast episode are listed on that episode's podcast page. We also provide a full transcript of every episode for you. 

‍

So if you want to go back and read an episode transcript, you can do that. So please check out those resources at dralisoncook.com/podcast. Secondly, take a moment to subscribe. 

As I said, I'll be taking next week off, but we're going to hit the ground running in the new year. With some exciting new episodes, as well as new ways to connect. New ways for me to engage with your questions on the podcast, as well as in some other new ways that we're excited to announce.

‍

So please subscribe to the podcast, if you haven't, because that way you won't miss an episode. It'll pop up right in your feed every Thursday morning. You can also sign up for my free weekly email. It goes out every Thursday and I often share additional insights. Other things I've thought about related to this week's episode. 

‍

So it's a great way to stay in touch. I also announced new specials or new content I'm offering there, and you get three free E-books when you sign up for that email. So take a moment, you can go to my website, dralisoncook.com and sign up for that weekly email. I'll also put the link in the episode show notes. 

‍

So today is our last episode of this series, on managing perceptions versus authentic connection. And we started off this series talking about the many ways we tend to manage perceptions. Which means we try to get other people to see us in a certain way instead of showing up authentically, being real, being the person we really are. It doesn't mean that we don't have our guard up, in a healthy way. We don't just go show all of who we are just to anybody, trust has to be earned. 

‍

But even when you're protecting yourself in a healthy way. Even when you're going into a relationship knowing, "I need to be careful here." You can still show up, authentically, instead of trying to get that person to see you the way that you want. And this last episode gets into this idea of power. And power really underlies all of these ways that we manage perceptions because we're trying to get power. 

‍

So while this is an episode in and of itself, it also ties up in all these ways. Whether you are pleasing, producing, performing, perfecting, whatever method you use. What we're trying to do, these parts of us that do these things, these parts of us that perfect, please, perform, produce even power-over, which is the more overt one. They're always, "We're trying to get power. We're trying to get people to see us in a certain way." And that brings me right to where I want to start. 

‍

What is power? 

‍

We tend to think of power, often, as a bad thing. We tend to think of people who power-over as dominating, controlling. People who misuse power and, again, we have so many examples of a misuse of power. That I really think that we've begun almost to equate power with something bad. Power is someone who hurts other people to stay in control, to keep their own power. 

‍

But here's the thing, here's how the dictionary defines power. "It's the capacity to direct or influence the behavior of others, or to direct, or influence the course of events." So power is the capacity we all have to influence others. Think about that for a second.

‍

If you're a parent, you have power to influence your child. It's scary and there should be a healthy fear when we think about power. I want to be clear about that. Healthy power goes hand-in-hand with a healthy fear and trembling, because we are fallen creatures. We will misuse the power we have, we are not God. 

‍

God has power and God does not misuse His power. God only uses His power to influence us, to influence the course of events for good. There's also an enemy. The enemy of our souls only misuses power, only influences us, influences the course of events for bad. That's the enemy of our souls. But God only uses His power for good. 

‍

Now, somewhere in there we, humans, are a mixture. We are a mixture. We can use our power for great good and we can do harm, because we're fallen humans. And I just want to name that, especially if you're a parent, because I started with parenting. That's the hardest one because it's the most obvious place where there's a power differential. We as parents have a lot of power. We have a lot of influence in our kids' lives. We have power in our friends' lives. We have power in our workplace. 

‍

Sometimes it doesn't feel like we have any power. We feel powerless, and there are many reasons for that. If someone else has misused their power to put us in a position of feeling like we have no choices, like we are trapped, that's a terrible place to be in. If you are feeling powerless, I want you to get help. I want you to learn to find small ways to reclaim your power. Because power, at the end of the day, is something we all need to have a relationship with.

‍

We need to understand the power that we have so that we can use it wisely. So that we can use it for good. Now, in my book, The Best of You, for those of you who've read it, I describe six harmful parenting patterns. I also describe seven friendship red flags. And I get into these ways that we manage perceptions, and I also talk about how churches can abuse power. All of these chapters, where I talk about this, are getting into ways we can misuse power. 

‍

So instead of showing up, authentically, with confidence, even naming hard things. Even exerting healthy influence, that's healthy power. But instead of doing that, we pivot and out of our fear, and out of our insecurities, and out of our wounds, and out of our unhealed shame, we try to force people to do things. We try to manipulate other people's perceptions. We try to demand loyalty. And we might do this in forceful ways or we might do this in subtle ways.

‍

There are the overt ways that power gets misused. The narcissistic power that tries to keep you always, only, focused on them. The controlling power that, overtly, tries to dictate your behaviors. The powering-over through gaslighting that won't let you get a word in. You have no say in the narrative, every word you used is used against you. Those are really obvious ways that power gets misused. 

‍

Now, listen, I mean, obvious, it doesn't mean it's not easy to get sucked into these because it is. But these are overt ways that we misuse power. There are more subtle ways we can misuse power through guilt-tripping. Through trying to get someone to feel guilty, so they'll do the thing we want them to do. 

There's through manipulation ways that we can take advantage of other people's good heart. Ways other people may have taken advantage of you, of your empathy, of your kindness. And instead of humbling themselves to apologize, they start to manipulate you. 

‍

And there's the power of criticism, frankly, of being judgmental. We feel better about ourselves. We puff up our own faults, sense of power, by dragging others down. So there are a lot of ways that we misuse power. 

‍

Power is tricky and I think women, in particular, have a tenuous relationship with power. And I think for most women, not for all women, I'm broadly generalizing here. But many of us haven't felt that we have power. We haven't felt empowered. We don't understand what it means to feel powerful. In fact, we fear that in ourselves. We've been taught we're not supposed to have power. Isn't that bad? Why should I want power? Power is bad. 

‍

And, so. what happens is we stay at the mercy of other people, people who are okay with having power and wield their power. Now, hopefully, we get lucky and we're with someone who wields their power for good. But what I want to propose to you is this idea of shared power. What if we all have a little bit of God-given power and we can use it for ill? Yes. But we all have the capacity to use our power for good. 

‍

Remember that definition, "Power is the capacity to direct or influence the behaviors of others, or the course of events." You have power. Now let me give you a simple example. We're going into Christmas, I've been talking about this on and on, almost every episode, especially in the series on boundaries. But you have power on Christmas day. You have power over the schedule. 

‍

Now, you may not have ultimate power. You may not have complete power. I'm not saying that it's up to you to become a dictator, that would be a misuse of power. But you do have some power. You do have some power to say, "You know what? I don't want to do that this year."

‍

Or "I need to minimize my exposure to that activity or that person this year." I have some power. Right now I want you to consider, "I have some power." I can make decisions that will be good for me and that, yes, might impact or influence the course of events. Which means that my decisions might influence other people. I might need to exert some power with my kids to say, "Hey, this is what we need to do this year. I know you might not like it, but I need you to trust me. This is what's best for our family."

‍

You might need to exert your power simply for yourself, if you live by yourself. What power do you have to bring in connection? 

‍

What power do you have? 

I know you may not feel like you have much. It's so easy to feel like we are powerless in our circumstances. But I want you to consider the question, "What power do I have and how could I use it for good?" Maybe for good for someone else, and maybe you need to use that power for your own good. To influence your own course of activities for good. Maybe you need to bring something good into your day. Maybe you need to say no to something that would make you feel even worse, even more lonely.

‍

What power do you have? 

‍

And talk to God the author of power. The One who holds all the power and who gets inside and out, how to use power for good. Talk to God, "God, how can I use any shred of power you've given me for good this Christmas. In my own life and in the lives of people I love?

‍

< Music >

‍

Alison: I am going to read a quote to you. This is a quote by Marianne Williamson and it's a powerful quote and I just want you to hear it today, as you even think about the holidays and even the new year. Here's the quote; "Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. 

‍

It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, 'Who am I to be brilliant. . .talented. . .?' Actually who are you not to be? You are a child of God. Your playing small does not serve the world. There is nothing enlightening about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you. 

We are all meant to shine as children do. We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us. It's not just in some of us, it's in everyone. And as we let our own lights shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence, automatically, liberates others." 

‍

And I want you to think about that. What about your own power, your own light, your own brightness, do you fear? What if you could use your power for good, not only in your own life, but in the lives of the people you love?

‍

Now, listen, I have struggled with claiming my own power. I struggle with it to this day. I don't like to think of having power. There's something about it that makes me want to shrink. But here's the thing that I've noticed. If I don't understand and name the actual power that I have, I will do more harm. And this is where we get into, I will start to please, I will start to perform, I will start to produce. I will start to manage perceptions because I feel fearful. 

‍

And, so, I slip into these ways of manipulating perceptions versus simply showing up as my true self. As my God-given self, and trusting you to be your true self, your God-given self. And letting us each inhabit the powerful voice that God has given us to use for good in this world, in partnership with God's spirit. 

‍

Misused power is about misplaced attempts for connection. It all goes back to this deep longing for connection. And when we misuse our power, we are trying to subvert the healthy process of connecting to other humans. We need other people. We need to be loved, we need to belonging, we need trust, we need safety. But we have to go about getting those things in healthy ways. We have to use our power to forge healthy connections in healthy ways.

‍

So how do we do that? 

‍

How do we learn to harness our power in wise, healthy, good ways, that forge authentic, beautiful, lasting, safe, good connections with others? Well, power used wisely starts inside you. It starts with naming your longings. "I long for this person to see me."

‍

"I long to feel less alone."

‍

"I long to be loved."

‍

"I long to be trusted."

‍

"I long for connection." We have to get clear that at the root of this all is our deep desire to belong, to be loved, to be valued, to be honored, to be seen. This is at the root of all of this. And until we're really honest with ourselves that what I really want is for you to get me, to understand me, to see me. To take me as I am in both my good and in my blind spots, and in my brokenness, that I'm still working on. That's what I really want here, out of this interaction, and whether you're saying that or not, you know it. 

‍

But when you know that you're going to be less tempted to try to manipulate, control, force, guilt trip. Whatever the thing is that we do to try to get those things that are not healthy. So it starts with naming, it starts with owning, deep in your core. 

‍

"What I long for is your love."

‍

"What I long for is your respect."

‍

"What I long for is for your forgiveness."

‍

"What I long for is for your grace."

‍

"What I long for is for your understanding. I can't demand that of you. I can't make you love me, respect me, forgive me, see me, understand me, I can't make you do that. I can't force it, I can't control it, it's what I long for."

‍

And, so, what I can do is let you know that I hope that you'll give me a shot, that I hope you'll see me, I hope you'll understand me. I hope you'll give me grace when I mess up, but I can never demand that. I can't force that. Woo, that's hard. That's a hard place to be, and we first have to go there inside ourselves and with God. 

‍

We first have to say, "God, this is what I long for from this person. I want my child to understand where I've been coming from and to forgive me. But I can't demand that. I can't coerce that. I can't control that."

‍

"What I long for is this friend to understand I didn't mean to hurt her. I want her to forgive me, but I can't demand that. I can't coerce that."

‍

"What I long for is this person just to love me and see me. I want my parent, or this friend, or my spouse to get me, but I can't command that. I can't demand that. I just have to continue to keep showing up, as honestly and as authentically, and naming what I long for, when it's appropriate. That's all I can do, I cannot control the way other people respond to me." And that's vulnerable. 

‍

The flip side, the underbelly of power is vulnerability. It's vulnerable to want other people to love us, to see us, to connect with us. It's vulnerable, we can't control other people. And, so, we have to think about power from that place of vulnerability. Power used wisely is not weak. It's not being a doormat, but it's having the confidence to understand, "First and foremost, I long for this thing," number one. 

‍

And number two, "I cannot force someone else to give it to me."

‍

So, number three, "What can I do? What do I have control over?" And this is where we have some power. 

‍

"I can apologize."

‍

"I can communicate."

‍

"I can go to someone and say, 'I adore you. I would love more of you in my life.'" 

‍

We can go to someone and say, "I value you and I'd love to make a plan to connect more on Christmas day."

‍

"Your presence is really soothing to me; it means a lot to me. Would you be available to spend some time with me over the holidays?"

‍

And guess what, that's vulnerable because that person might say no. They might say, "I don't have the capacity." But what we have power over is the ask. Power is got to flow from a deep understanding of what we need and what we want, and what we can ask for. And it also has to flow from the humility that we cannot force other people to get us those good things we crave.

‍

It's vulnerable. So we've got to go to God first and say, "God, I'm going to do this brave thing. I'm going to use a little of that God-given power. I can use my voice and I may not get what I want." But guess what? It's powerful to have showed up on behalf of yourself and to have said, "This is what I need and it's okay if you can't give it to me, I'll be disappointed, but this is what I need."

‍

There's also times when you need to exert power and you need to influence events. Which may influence other people and they may not like it. And this is when there's a power differential, when you're a parent is the best example. And you've got to make a decision because it's what's best for you, and your kids may not like it.

‍

And, again, you're exerting your power for good when you name it and you say, "Hey, listen, this is the plan that we've got to do, as a family. You may not love this plan. This may not be your first choice, and I get that and I can honor that. 

‍

But this is the plan that's the best for the best of us. I've thought about what each person needs. I understand what you want, this is the plan I've come up with. And it may not be the perfect plan, but it is the plan we're going to do. And you are allowed, you get to have feelings about that plan. I get that you can be disappointed about it, but here's the plan."

‍

So this is the power that you exert when you actually have some power. When you have power over kids, and you've got to make a decision that's hard. Or you've got power in your workplace and you've got to say, "Hey, I get that this may not be what's best for everybody else, and I'm sorry about that, that's hard. 

‍

But as the leader here, I've got to make this hard decision. So here's what we're going to do. I'm open to feedback, but for now, here's the decision. I've made it in the best interest of all of us, and I'm hoping you can trust me on that. And if you've got hesitations, you've got reservations, I'm open to input, but this is the best decision I can make at this time."

‍

So there's a way you can make decisions and you can exert power, when you do have power over other people that still has humility, but that still has confidence. We got to make decisions in life. We got to exert power in life at times, it's just a fact. So we've got to do it with humility and with confidence. 

‍

There's so much more we can do on this and we'll dig deeper into this topic, in the new year. Because power is so much at the root of so much of everything. It's at the root of safety, it's at the root of trust. It gets into all these other things. If I've got power, I've got to earn trust, I've got to create safety. It doesn't mean being perfect, but it does mean really stewarding the power that we have. 

‍

So step number one is we've just got to understand that we do have power. But step number two, is how do we honor other people, as we steward the power that we have? 

‍

To close, today, I want to look at the Christmas story because here's the thing about this thing, this story that we celebrate every year, at Christmas. Did you ever think of it as a story of power? This is arguably the most powerful day of the year. Maybe Easter is more powerful, the resurrection of Jesus from the dead. The resurrection of Christ is a powerful, powerful moment in history, probably, arguably, the most powerful moment in history. 

‍

But when Jesus was born, there's also an example of power, and it's this humble power that I'm talking about today. It's this power that is the opposite of force, the opposite of coercion, the opposite of control. 

‍

It's the power of a God who chose to leave all the glory, and all the riches, and all the wonder of heaven, Philippians two, and come into the earth as the most vulnerable form of a baby. And not only a baby, a baby born into poverty, a baby born to a single mother, and a probably reluctant, confused stepdad in Joseph. 

‍

I mean, these were not powerful circumstances that Jesus was born into and, yet, this most powerful being in all the universe, God showed up in the most tender, vulnerable of circumstances. So as to bring safety to others and making himself so vulnerable, so tender, that He could therefore, then, bring powerful healing to others.

‍

That tenderness of that baby brings powerful healing to others, and just pause on that for a second without me unpacking it. Think of your own tenderness as one of your most powerful assets. Because your tenderness, your ability to tap into those tender places inside of you, "I'm hurting, I'm lonely, I'm disappointed, I feel powerless." That is the start of powerful healing. 

‍

It's hard to get to the root of our tenderness. But that's what Jesus did, He became vulnerable, so tender, and in doing so, became a source of tremendous healing. The ultimate powerful healing for all of us. 

‍

So this Christmas, as you think about this baby, Jesus, who was born into a manger, into a stable, into poverty. By everything we understand historically into this mixed up family. That wasn't a socially acceptable family. 

As you think about Jesus and that tenderness, I want you to think about the tenderness inside of you and just notice, before God, areas where you're tender. And instead of shoving those feelings aside; what if naming those areas of tenderness is a form of power?

‍

It's powerful to name those areas of tenderness. It's powerful to name them in a journal, to name them before God. To name them to a safe person, a person who has earned your trust. There's power in vulnerability, it's a pearl. It's not a pearl you want to give to just anyone, especially, if you're in a situation where someone else is misusing their power. I don't want you to give the tenderness of your vulnerability to someone who's misusing your power. But I do want you to begin to name it for yourself. 

‍

Because the path to healthy power, to being someone who uses power for good in other people's lives. Starts with you using your God-given power for good inside yourself. To be tender with the parts of you that are hurting, with the parts of you that are vulnerable. It starts with you using your God-given power for good inside of you.

‍

Jesus came into this earth and He went to the margins, He went to the hurting, He went to the poor, He went to the suffering. He went to this sick with the power of His healing and it started because He became the most powerless form Himself. He understood powerlessness in Himself and He was therefore able to walk into other people's lives with true power. With power that uplifts, with power that equips, with power that heals, with power that transforms lives. 

‍

This Christmas start with yourself. Be gentle with those tender parts of you. Be gentle with them, that is the beginning of unlocking your God-given power.

Were you subtly conditioned to please others at the expense of yourself? I loved talking with my friend, Dr. Monique Gadson, on today's episode of the podcast. We met through an IG Live prayer session! She's since become the best sort of real-life friend-someone whose wisdom, empathy, and realness breathes life into weary souls.

‍

If you've struggled with depression or felt overlooked-even as you constantly show up for others-please lean in close. Dr. Monique is candid about her own journey through depression and how she lost herself in all the voices around her. In a powerful turn of events, Monique began to bring mental health directly to the center of the church, where she's practiced as a counselor for decades.

‍

We cover so much in today's episode, including:

1. A key moment from childhood when she learned to please others

2. Monique's experience as a PK

3. The burden of always attuning to others when you're disconnected from your own self

4. Monique's early experience with depression and how she got help

5. Practical tips if you struggle with feeling "joy" at the holidays

6. Finding your own way as a parent amidst all of the voices

7. Monique's call to bring mental health *into* the church

8. Jesus and people pleasing

9. The power of friendship to bring hope in dark places

‍Check out Dr. Monique's new book with Clarence Shuler, Finding Hope in A Dark Place: Facing Loneliness, Depression, and Anxiety with the Power of Grace

Connect with Dr. Monique at drmoniquesmithgadson.com or on Instagram @drmoniquesmithgadson

If you are struggling with depression, find resources for support on my website.

‍

Thanks to our sponsors:

• Organifi -Go to www.organifi.com/bestofyou and use code BESTOFYOU for 20% off your order today!
• This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp -Go to www.betterhelp.com/bestofyou and use code BESTOFYOU for 10% off your first month!
• Download Abide Sleep and Pray Meditation and text my promo code BESTOFYOU to 22433 today to get 25% off!

Music by Andy Luiten/Sound editing by Kelly Kramarik

While Dr. Cook is a counselor, the content of this podcast and any of the products provided by Dr. Cook are not specific counseling advice nor are they a substitute for individual counseling. The content and products provided on this podcast are for informational purposes only.

‍

Resources

• Finding Hope in A Dark Place: Facing Loneliness, Depression, and Anxiety with the Power of Grace, by Clarence Shuler and Dr. Monique Gadson
• Learn more about The Cocktail of Codependency, Freeze/Fawn Response, and Spiritual Bypassing in The Best of You, by Dr. Alison Cook
• To learn more about Unburdening and the Internal Family Systems model, check out my book with Kimberly Miller, Boundaries for Your Soul
• Black Panther: Wakanda Forever
  
• Resources for support‍
• Galatians 1:10 "Am I now trying to win the approval of human beings, or of God? Or am I trying to please people? If I were still trying to please people, I would not be a servant of Christ."
• Ephesians 5:27 "and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless."
• Romans 12:15 "Rejoice with those who rejoice; mourn with those who mourn."
• Mark 12:31 "The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'There is no commandment greater than these."
• Romans 8:28  "And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose."

‍

Transcript

Alison: Hey everyone, and welcome back to this episode of The Best of You podcast. I know this is one so many of you have been waiting for. Where we talk about this idea of people-pleasing. And I don't really like that word because it's a little bit negative. Because I think for a lot of us pleasing others comes out of a very empathetic place, a genuinely kind place. 

‍

And it's really hard for so many of us to discern the difference between pleasing others out of self-betrayal or even out of a way that isn't healthy for them or for the relationship, and a way of just genuinely being aware of needs around us and wanting to meet them. 

‍

So that's what I'm hoping to flesh out today with my dear friend and colleague, and just an amazing woman who is a therapist, a professor. She hosts a podcast called — And The Church Said. She's a coach consultant, and she's the co-author of a new book that we'll talk about a little bit later called — Finding Hope in Dark Places, Dr. Monique Gadson.

‍

Thank you so much for joining me today for this conversation, Monique. I'm so grateful to have this conversation with you specifically.

‍

Monique: Thank you Alison, for inviting me to be here with you. This is such an honor, it's such a privilege, I'm just so grateful. Grateful for you, grateful for who you are, so thank you. 

‍

Alison: We met on social media and you're one of those people. Right now I'm on a hiatus from social media and I'm noticing the ways in which not having that noise in my life is healthy. But there are some things I miss, and you are one of those people. There are a few people I've met I wouldn't have met otherwise, if it hadn't been for social media. So it reminds me of the good. So thank you for being one of those people. 

‍

I came across your Feed on social media. You're so genuine. I found you on your Live just praying one night when I really needed to connect in that way, and I joined you virtually for that prayer, and just being a reminder of the goodness. And then we've connected offline and just so grateful for you and your voice.

‍

Monique: Thank you, and likewise. Likewise, I appreciate you being the safe person that you are. Well, I listen to your podcast. So when I listen to your guests and those who have met you, who talk about your genuineness, and your warmth, and your just inviting spirit, I appreciate you. I appreciate you for being that type of person that restores my faith in people. So I appreciate that for you. 

‍

Alison: Thank you, that means a lot to me. I wanted to start, today, Monique, with an early history. When do you first remember learning that you could shift your own behavior to please someone else? And how did that begin to take shape in your life?

‍

Monique: Yes, so, one of my earliest remembrances is probably growing up a PK, a pastor's kid for those who may not be familiar there. I grew up a pastor's kid. So I was born in March, my dad was installed in his first pastorate in April.

‍

So all my life, practically, that's all I've known as being a PK. Even when he left to be with the Lord four years ago, he was still pastoring. So that's just been the duration of his life, that's what I've known. And I think how that started is you would hear these messages about PKs. 

‍

And it's, "Well, you know how PKs are." And I would think like, "Well, how are PKs?" And then I would hear that stigma, "They're wild, rebellious and all of the things." And I'm thinking like, "Well, I mean, we get in trouble, yes. We get punished, yes. We got the spankings, yes."

‍

But I'm like, "We're not just this picture that was painted." And there was something within that made me want to say, "No, that's not who PKs are." And, in addition to that, I do believe the messaging of my parents, "Yes, you are the pastor's kid, people are going to look at you." This, that and the other. And you're like, "Well, okay."

‍

And, so, just early on there was this sense of there is a way you have to be. There is a way you have to perform to please other people. To not live out this perception that people might have of you. 

‍

So I really believe that's probably where it started. I love your book and your practice, I love all the things that you do. All the work that you've put forth. But when you talk about that cocktail, I think you called it once, with the childhood wounds, the cultural conditioning, and even those church messages. And I was thinking like, "My goodness, bam, I sit right there in the midst of all of those things." 

‍

All of those are true factors that I say to my clients, sometimes, "You put all of the ingredients in the slow cooker and with the right temperature, and over time, this is what it creates." And, so, I believe that that's probably a bit of where it started, when I have to really sit and think about it.

‍

Alison: Yes, it makes sense. Yes, that cocktail of co-dependency. I appreciate that, that there was, especially, as a PK, there was this extra layer of, "Don't bring shame on the family." I can imagine. 

‍

You told me a story, Monique, about watching, was it your brother get in trouble or what? Can you tell me that story? That was such an enlightening and a window into that unspoken pressure in a way.

‍

Monique: Yes, there was a time when my oldest brother, well, my father had called for him to come to do something for him. And, so, his mind was there like, "Let me go see what Dad wants." 

‍

And there was an older lady who, basically, just raked him over the coals saying, "He walked past her and he did not speak to her." And he was trying to be apologetic, and he said, "I'm sorry, I didn't mean any harm, and just hello, how are you?" And tried to keep it moving. 

‍

But she just would not let it go. And, so, then some kind of way my mom either saw what was going on or she went to my mom, and I mean, she raked my mom over the coals. And it was this, "Well, if anybody's children should be mannerable and speaking to people, it should be the pastor's children."

‍

And, so, that just wasn't a pretty encounter, whatsoever. And I can remember thinking, "Because you thought he didn't speak to you?"

‍

I could get it if he did say something and say something disrespectful. But the fact that he, and it was an honest overlook, it wasn't intentional. So, yes, that's what you're remembering, I've share it with you. Well, I'm sitting here thinking about it, even right now, and I just feel like I'm right there in that moment in time, just even bringing it back up. 

‍

But, yes, so those types of things, you just feel like you're hyper vigilant. Now, you're walking around like you're in a pageant. Like, "Hello, Hi." And you're trying to speak to everybody, waving at everyone, just to make sure that you are doing what is expected of you and you're not the cause. Because that's what you're thinking, as a kid, of someone that then is taking your mom and taking her out to pasture, it was like, "Okay."

‍

Alison: How old do you think you were when you watched all this? 

‍

Monique: Oh, my gosh, I probably was-

‍

Alison: Like elementary school?

‍

Monique: Yes, eight, nine-ish.

‍

Alison: And you think about, there's a reason we remember. These memories are etched in our minds for a reason. There's a reason that something in you was like, "Oh, my goodness, I never want to make my mom feel that way. I never want to be in trouble like my brother is." 

‍

I love, and then you're just, almost, compulsively, I would imagine, making sure you're saying Hi to every person to avoid the pain of that moment. And this is what, kind of, in this series, where I want to go back to these early memories. 

‍

Because that is where we pick up this conditioning, in so many ways, that then we carry with us. We leave the house, we get out in the world, we're in college, and we're still operating in these ways that we've learned. So how did you begin to notice that when you left the home, as a young woman?

‍

Monique: Yes, I don't know that I ever had words for it. But I can just remember in college, in those early years of college, and, well, even adolescence, this, who am I? Like you're, literally, haunted by that question. 

‍

Now, I do know that some of that is developmental. If we think about human development, Erikson Stages, and some of that is just to be. But I do believe that it was exasperated for me because there was this sense of trying to attune to what is within. 

‍

But that being smothered or just crowded out by all of the other voices, of who you are supposed to be and what it is that you are supposed to do. So I truly believe that it was from that compass where I followed the path. So then you get in college, and you're thinking, "Oh, okay, well, this seems like the thing I'm supposed to do."

‍

Alison: Yes. 

‍

Monique: And not really checking in to say like, "Okay, but is this true to who you are? Does it feel like this is what you are supposed to do? What resonates with your soul?" I had no inner needle, if you will. Or I should say I had the inner needle, but it would be drawn more to those voices and all of that conditioning that had, in essence, I guess taught me how to suppress me and what I desired.

‍

Alison: Yes, and, so, how did that play out for you? How did you begin to notice that all of this effort? It's almost like I hear you saying you were so attuned to everyone around you.

‍

Monique: Mh-hmm. 

‍

Alison: And I get that picture, you used the metaphor, the pageant queen, I love that. You're so attuned to making everybody else around you happy, pleased, that you didn't know how to attune inwardly. You didn't know how to attune to yourself. And how did you begin to become aware that that was a problem?

‍

Monique: I think depression. When I first started suffering from depression. I just remember feeling so heavy, like I had this burden on my back or just feeling that there was this persistent sadness that I couldn't explain, it just would not go anywhere. And I just really struggled with like, "What's wrong with me?"

‍

And at that time, when I was in college, I went to the counseling center on campus and had spoken with a therapist there. Which was, even looking back, just it was a divinely ordered step for me to take. Because in the African American community, therapy just was not a thing. And add that layer of being a Christian in the African American community, and in the church, that definitely wasn't a thing that was talked about, or promoted, or affirmed even for that matter.

‍

So I just have to look back and believe that that was a divinely inspired step to take. But once I started talking about it, I think that, at least, it gave me an outlet to be able to say some things. And I said these things clumsily because, again, I didn't have the words. 

‍

And you know, as a therapist, people are going to bring us fragments, and we're just putting them down, and trying to piece things together. And I know that's how I brought things, it was just fragmented. 

‍

It was just trying to figure out like, "What is wrong with me? What is going on? Why don't I feel like living and why do I feel, not happy?" And all of the things. So I think that that's how it initially had begun to manifest, was through depression, and also there was a lot of anxiety.

‍

Alison: Yes, thank you for sharing that, Monique, so bravely. I just can sense, in my spirit, others listening who feel that weight that you're describing and don't know how to put words to it. 

‍

They just know they feel depressed. They don't know how to turn inwardly. They don't even know what they need. And I just appreciate the courage in what you just shared. And, especially, I can imagine you and I are probably roughly the same age. But when you add that overlay of everything you described. Being a PK, being in culturally, and even that time period.

‍

I know when I was in college, it still was on the early end. For you and I, it was not like everybody was going to a therapist. It wasn't as common even as it is now, and even now there's still stigma to it. So I just appreciate what you're saying, almost. I can imagine there was a certain amount of desperation to go, because it so wasn't a part of what you were taught was how to reach out for help.

‍

Monique: Yes, it was, literally, fear because once I started thinking, "Why am I even living?"

‍

"Is there even any point to life?" When I started feeling that. I went, "Wait, something has to happen, I need to do something." And that was all at that moment I thought to do, so, yes.

‍

Alison: That is so brave. I just put myself in your shoes and thank you for sharing that, again, because I know it's real. I know people feel that way and there's a desperation, and somehow you picked up a phone or walked into an office and it helped, and that's what I'm curious about.

‍

I imagine it there was still a lot of work left to be done, but in that moment of giving voice, even cobbled together words, to another human. That, that was helpful to you at that time, is that right?

‍

Monique: Absolutely, it was. And I don't even believe that there was resolve. I didn't stay in it that long and it wasn't because I did not desire. The person that I worked with was a college campus's therapist in training.

‍

Alison: Yes, I've been one of those. It's scary, and I'm sure you have too. It's like, "How am I going to help this person?"

‍

Monique: Oh, yes, exactly. But I think that what happened that person, eventually, had finished their term or whatever. And, so, I just was like, "Okay, well, I don't want to have to retail this to someone else." 

‍

And, again, for the purpose at that moment, there was relief and that was the biggest thing. That there was a sense of relief and release for that matter during that. And that probably was the beginning of my journey toward considering therapy, embracing therapy. And, now that I mentioned it, probably, one of the earlier footprints to even becoming a therapist myself. 

‍

Alison: Hmm.

‍

Monique: And I've never really even considered that moment in time. I always fast-forward the timeline of my life and say, "I think it was at this point." But now that I'm sitting here saying this aloud, I do believe that that probably was a footprint even there, at that point, of my developmental timeline, too.

‍

Alison: Do you think maybe just that seed planted of, "What this person just did for me was so meaningful." And that a seed was planted maybe for yourself? That's interesting.

‍

Monique: Absolutely, yes.

‍

Alison: I love what you're saying and I just want to pause on it. Again for those who are listening who are feeling this weight, even right now, and we're going into Christmas. And sometimes I say to people, "Almost, the pressure of the joy can make the weight feel heavier." 

‍

And, so, what I love about what you're saying is, this was probably a counselor in training, someone young, it's a college counseling center. It probably wasn't in hindsight; it didn't solve all of the things. 

‍

But there was relief, there was something, there was a glimpse, and that's, sometimes, all we need. You just took a step and you connected with another human, and there was relief and it set a lot of things in motion.

‍

So I really just appreciate your honesty about how dark it was. It makes me understand a little more, and we're going to come to this book that you just helped co-author. Just the empathy that you have for others who are in that dark place.

‍

Monique: Absolutely. And who are not only in that dark place, but who are in church and who are in that dark place and feel as though this is, again, "Not what I'm supposed to do."

‍

It's interesting that you even talk about this joy of the season, and I just remember thinking something. I can't remember if it were a podcast I heard recently on that word joy. And just even once I did a word study on it and one of the ways it was defined is just sheer delight. 

‍

Alison: Hmm. 

‍

Monique: And I thought to myself like, "Wow, that feels a little less heavy than the exuberance that we so often associate with joy." And which is a portion of it, but this sheer delight. And I thought to myself like, "Wow, that feels a little less heavy. That feels a little doable."

‍

And, so, even one day, last week I spoke with a client, going through a very tough time, and we were recounting the Thanksgiving holiday. And for her even just the struggle, and I said, "All you need to do is look at the smiles on your children's faces."

‍

And I asked her some other things and she said, "Well, I do have a roof over my head." Yes, stay there. Just stay right there. Don't feel, like you're saying, just the pressure to have to say, "Oh, and for all of these deep things I'm grateful for, when I'm in the midst of this very difficult time." 

‍

Just find the sheer delight, the little things, and I'm hopeful that that does help people not feel so burdened. Again, and this is the thing we have to do during this time. We have to conjure up this energy to be all of these things. When that might not match what's really going on in the inside.

‍

Alison: That's a really good word, it takes the pressure off of this idea of joy as the absence of suffering. When really it might just be a sheer delight in something really small. I've heard this saying, "Shared sorrow is half the sorrow. Shared joy is twice the joy." And there's something about the being with, even in a small thing. Even that moment with you, with your client, like, "I do have a roof over my head."

‍

Monique: Mh-hmm. 

‍

Alison: And sharing that with you. There's holiness in that moment.

‍

Monique: Mh-hmm. 

‍

Alison: That right there, that is a moment, I mean, it brings tears to my eyes. Because it is the holiness of our work, is that, "I am with you as you dig deep and find genuine gratitude, genuine-" Whatever the word is that joy does, it feels so... "And I do have a roof over my head and you're helping me see that. I'm not trying to conjure this up all by myself." That's beautiful.

‍

Monique: Yes.

‍

Alison: Monique, how did your becoming a mom impact your own journey; toward healing, toward connecting more deeply to yourself? There's such a paradox, I think, when we become parents it becomes very sacrificial. 

‍

Monique: Mh-hmm.  

‍

Alison: That in fact, we show up for our kids better when we've learned to show up a little bit more for ourselves. And, so, how did becoming a mom impact your own journey toward becoming more of who you really are? Becoming more authentic while you're also caring for your children?

‍

Monique: Yes, woo, you talk about those 20s and, so, I had become a mom. So I'm just coming out of college, a few years after college I'm married and shortly a year after that I'm a mom and it's like, "Okay."

‍

So there were some things I had already resolved that I wanted to do a little differently, as a parent. And some of the things we had talked about, some of our values and beliefs. And, so, those things were not necessarily so hard to implement as becoming a parent. 

‍

So, again, here we are, all of these messages; the conditioning, and the church messages, and childhood even. Because our stuff, definitely, it's going to show its head when we become a parent, for certain. So there was a struggle. 

‍

Oh, my God, there was a struggle even becoming a mom and doing what I feel like I'm being led to do as I'm studying this young person. I was a stay-at-home mom, so at the time just because of the way life was, I wasn't working at the time, anyway. And, so, we were just like, "It's going to really cost more for you to work and daycare at that time. And we were like, "Let's just see her through the first few years. Okay, let's do this."

‍

So, I mean, even that was a thing where this is what we felt. But then there were others like, "Well, what did you go to college for?" And I'm going, "Oh, my God, there's an expiration date on a college degree?" I'm like, "Well, okay."

‍

I mean, so that was a message that would be in my ear. And then, another message like, "Yes, you're doing that and you need to do this too." And it's just like by the time these things collide in your mind, you're just kind of like, "Oh, my God." Then you're back to, "What do I do?"

‍

And, so, yes, that is a struggle trying to get through there and tease through what is everybody else's voice? What is everybody else's expectation? And trying to unbury me and figuring out like, "Okay, how has God fashioned me to be a mom of this child? 

He gave me this child to carry." And you're going to know some things about this child before anybody else will know about this child.

‍

So trying to get to that place definitely was a struggle. Definitely was a big time struggle. And also it made me realize I needed to heal or, at least, start some serious work toward healing. In order to try to raise her to be a young woman that God had created her to be. 

‍

Alison: Mh-hmm. 

‍

Monique: I could see early on, how if I did not get myself together, how I would be a hindrance to her and for her. And, by no means, have I done that perfectly. That was, and it still is, a messy journey, and anybody that parents know that, and both of my girls are young adults now. 

‍

So even in this phase of life, it still is a thing that requires of me to be aware. To continually do my work as I try to guide and come alongside them as young adults. I don't want to give the impression that we spend a certain amount of time, we check a few boxes, and we read a couple of books. We journal a few pages and we're done, we're over this people-pleasing thing. 

‍

There are places that we continue to struggle. I continue to struggle with that in life. Interestingly enough, even in my therapy, my current-day therapy, just recounting some things in terms of trying to be a good mom, even now. 

‍

And my therapist shared with me some places where those were some experiences, where you tried to please your girls more than parent them. And I was thinking like, "Are you serious?" So it was even interesting how that theme still even pops up in parent thing.

‍

Alison: What I love about what you're saying, first of all, for those who are listening is there is good enough.

‍

Monique: Mh-hmm. 

‍

Alison: So you're still learning things now, so am I. I'm shocked parenting young adulthood is a whole next level thing. And whole new layers of our own stuff come to the surface, and, yet, there's good enough. And, so, here you are back when she's a baby or new mom, realizing, "I've got to do some more work on myself."

‍

Monique: Mh-hmm. 

‍

Alison: Can you give me an example where you realized that? How did you have the self-awareness to know, at that moment, "This is my stuff that I've got to work through?"

‍

Monique: Mh-hmm. Well, I think for me, one of the first things I had become aware of was just generational stuff, too. I can remember some conversations with my grandmother and I would just say like "Grandma, I don't think that's going to work." 

‍

But, again, the piece of me that did not want to be, again, we got to be perceived as disrespectful or I know more than you know kind of a thing. So it would be those encounters where you are thinking like, "Okay, I hear what you're saying, I just don't know that that, necessarily, is going to work with me in this situation."

‍

So I was able to identify some generational things. Which that was some insight that the Lord had just given me, looking back, I didn't know that then, had given me generational insight early on in my life, too. Again, I wouldn't have been able to put language to it.

‍

Alison: Yes.

‍

Monique: But when I look back, like you say, those things that I can remember, I remember for a reason and those were indicators of some generational stuff. That I was thinking, "Oh, man, we might need to turn some corners with some things." 

‍

So that was one way. And I think the other, for me, not only that fawn response, that people-pleasing, one of my, well, I would say my go-to, if you will, trauma response is the freeze, the numb, and I get stuck in indecisiveness.

‍

Alison: Okay.

‍

Monique: And I just really could not make up my mind what I wanted to do. "I feel like this is what I'm supposed to do." But all of those, again, other messages and the sweet mothers and grandmothers at church, "And you need to."

‍

"And you make sure." And you're like, "Oh, okay." And I want people to understand that I'm not saying that these things are not good, and these things were not words of wisdom. What I am saying is that when you are already struggling with trying to do what everyone else expects you to do. 

‍

It just becomes another layer that you have to try to navigate and, again, work your way through. To say, "Which of these things are good but maybe not, necessarily, what I'm going to implement? And what things to affirm what I, myself, want and wanted." So it was hard trying to kind of...

‍

I remember that, I don't know if it was a movie or a show and I'm probably really dating myself, but that Journey to the Center of the Earth or something show way back when, or whatever it was called. I almost have that picture in my mind and it was like this journey to our core. 

‍

Alison: Yes. 

‍

Monique: It was almost like you're going to all these galaxies. You're having to go through this layer, and that layer, and that layer and it feels like that, trying to get to the core of who you are. It felt as though I just had to journey to even find out what resonates with me.

‍

Alison: I love that, the journey to the center. And I'm imagining you, and I relate to it so much, Monique, that all the voices amp up at these pivotal moments of which parenting is one. And it's often well-intended, and that's what's hard. 

‍

And then, again, if you're an empathetic person, everyone is being well-intended, and whether it's family members, it's generational stuff, and these are people you respect, and that noise can get so loud. And if you already struggle to connect to your own inner compass, your God-given barometer inside. 

‍

I really appreciate that you brought in that freeze response. That sort of a deer in the headlights, "Oh, my gosh, I-don't-know-what-to-do immobility because I can't figure out how to manage all these voices around me. I can't even find the voice inside me. 

‍

I'm no longer even trying to please others, I'm just inert and I've got this precious little baby that God has given me." I love how you said that, "Has given me, and I have to be able to show up, at the end of the day, for this." I mean, that is intense, I love how you just zoomed in on. 

‍

I know every mom listening is going, "Ah-huh, yes." And the voices get so loud around that time because so many women do struggle with knowing, "How do I need to show up for my child and myself?" And it's going to look a little bit differently. And, so, how do we help each other in a better way? Because we're trying to help but it isn't always helpful. Our help is not always helpful. 

‍

***

So again, you have another moment of like, "Somehow, by the grace of God, I understand here that the best way to be a mom is I've got to do more of this work to really zoom in on my own center." You find probably another layer of relief there. And at some point in this makes you then also go back to become a therapist. 

‍

So tell me a little bit about that. You've got two girls, you're trying to find your own mom voice, and not only going into being a therapist, but going into being a therapist in a church setting. So tell me a little bit about that. How did you know that you wanted to go into that, make that move?

‍

Monique: Whew, yes, I think my spiritual life took a turn. I was at a funeral for, I did not know the young lady. I was there more in support for my brother. It was one of his dear friends who had passed and died in a car accident, and her middle name happened to be Monique.

‍

Alison: Hmm. 

‍

Monique: Now, and I didn't know that until I got there and I was just like, "Wow, okay." But it was there that I just had this, what I termed as God experience young girl, very young girl. She was in college when she passed. And I just remember having this moment of like, "What if this were your funeral?"

‍

And, "What would people say?"

‍

Or, "Would you yourself feel that you have done what you were placed on this earth to do?"

‍

Alison: Hmm. 

‍

Monique: And I, literally, left that funeral thinking, "No, I have not." And I just, earnestly, sought the Lord in prayer and just other spiritual disciplines like journaling. These things that were things that I've always just done, again, divinely-ordered looking back. But I had that conversation. I just begged the Lord to show me some things, and my goodness did He ever. 

‍

And a lot of what I saw and what He shared with me, I thank God at that time there was a spiritual mother, a mentor, who after we had gotten married, we spent a little bit of time living in Mississippi. And, so, this lady I met there, in that short amount of time that I was there, which is real interesting too.

‍

I would share these things with her and she would tell me just how she felt the Lord was leading me in that time. And what I recognized is, how did I say it before, one of the first times like really hearing Him speak directly to me, to me, not necessarily through other people. 

‍

And basically saying, "I want you to counsel. I want you to go and train as a therapist and to do this in the church." In the Black church clear. And I thought, "Okay, all right, this is cute and funny because I'm new to this. I, definitely, am not hearing correctly because Black churches don't do this type of thing. Black people don't do this thing." 

‍

So I struggled again and wrestled with trusting that my voice and the voice of the Lord were intimate in that moment. That they were one and the same. So after confirmation that this is indeed the voice of the Lord, "I am speaking to you, you are hearing me correctly."

‍

And I'm thinking, "Oh, my God, okay." And, so, I started the journey then to prepare to be a counselor. Now I believe looking back one of the reasons why to do that in the church setting, for one, again, and we're talking umpteen years ago. So I know things have progressed, thank the Lord. People, as you were saying, are a little bit more accepting to counseling. It's almost become a little trendy thing to do. So significant progress has been made, yes, still have a long way to go.

‍

Alison: Yes.

‍

Monique: Still have a very long way to go. Because even in the church setting, again, we're getting better with allowing people to express their grief, their limitations, the heart of life. 

I think we're getting better. But I also still believe that we don't allow adequate time and space. I just don't believe that we do. 

‍

And, so, that became my call. My life's work, is to take these experiences that I had throughout my life and figure, "How can we correct these experiences, especially in the church setting, so that people can walk in liberty sooner." That they can understand that, again, I think in this day and time we give a little space for a person to say, "This is hard." 

‍

But it's not long that that comes followed with this spiritual cheer, "You can do it. You can do all things through Christ." Truth, yes, but again, when we're in certain places in life, doesn't that feel heavy? Doesn't that feel... 

‍

Maybe I know this but what I need to hear someone say to me is, "I understand you're depressed and I'm wondering is it because you've done everything that everyone else has wanted you to do? And you are sad, or you are feeling heavy because you have gone overlooked for so long?"

‍

Do we open up that space and are we okay with stepping into that miry, murky place with someone and not feel so compelled to have to spiritually hurry them along. Because you and I very well know that spiritual bypass and A, is a very real thing and B, that that emotional work may take a little bit longer than sometimes we are willing to give that space and that time for.

‍

Alison: What a beautiful picture of taking all of that empathy, that you both needed. I'm thinking back to your college years when you had the heavy weight and the depression, and found relief from a therapist. And a PK, someone who grew up in the church and loves the church, and in that moment God's voice and your voice. 

‍

I love how you said, that coming together and it's like, "Okay, now you're going to go take that place of holding space for witnessing, for being with others' pain. For not fixing, or bypassing, or slapping Bible verses on." Just being with, right into the church setting 

‍

Monique: Mh-hmm. 

‍

Alison: That is just such a beautiful picture. We talk about spiritual bypassing, it really is this way of putting clichés, pat answers on things. Instead of really walking into the pain of others and just being with others in what they're experiencing. And just that picture of you in a church setting is really powerful to me. Do you think that whole issue is more elevated in a Black church?

‍

Monique: Yes, and I am speaking from my experience. So growing up in that life, still in that Black church life, and also having been a counselor in that setting. I feel like it gives me a bit of an edge to be able to say, "Yes, to that." I do. 

‍

And from what I have heard, over time, wish I had the insight back then to have collected some data. But I can remember what people would share with me. Kind of when you talk about these clichés, we get those things sometimes from the pulpit. Which I've actually done a presentation on about how some of the messages from the pulpit hinder our mental health and emotional health, especially, in the African American church setting.

How there is this historical reference; we talk about how our people have endured and how our people had to just keep it moving. Even under the most distressing of circumstances, extenuating of circumstances, they prevailed, they made it, and you come from that, you're cut from that cloth, you should be able to do that too. They didn't have time to sit on somebody's couch to process their feelings. They had to keep it moving and you should be able to do that too. 

‍

So I think that some of that is embedded in that historical context, generationally. And then we want to talk about cultural trauma versus that generational trauma, it's just been transmitted, from generation to generation. 

‍

And I want to say to people it is an act of resistance to feel. It's an act of resistance to feel because if your ancestors, your enslaved loved ones, were told, "Shut up, boy." Or, you can't show any kind of emotions when your families are being ripped apart, all of these things. Then do we not owe it to our ancestors to cry out. To even carry some of that, that was never expressed by them, we can bellow those things out. 

‍

Alison: Wow, oh, that's powerful. That just gave me chills.

‍

Monique: I think about the night before my father's funeral. A lot of his first cousins had come to the funeral home when we had the family visitation time or whatever. And I've known some of them just over the years, it was a lot of them. But it was just interesting to me that they shared with me, that night, that my grandmother, so my father's mom, was the one that their parents... So we're talking my grandmother's siblings would be their parents. 

‍

Alison: Mm-hmm. 

‍

Monique: So their fathers and their mothers, they chose to put their money together to send my grandmother to school. They felt she was the smartest one. 

‍

And, so, they put their money together, they worked to put her through school. And I told them I had never ever heard that before. But what I did know is that education was super-duper important to my grandmother, and to her children, and thereby to her grandchildren. 

‍

So I say that to say, that if we say things like for us to obtain an education or to have the right to vote. We should do this because our ancestors could not, or they fought for this, then, I would say the same thing about our emotional healing.

‍

Alison: Yes, okay, I get what you're saying. Yes, that makes a lot of sense and there's a whole another layer. And I remember talking about this with you. You so kindly read The Best of You and endorsed it. 

‍

And I remember I wanted to know from you, because in that cocktail of co-dependency, and the cultural conditioning, and the messages we get from culture, as women, "To stay small." And there is just a generational... we couldn't vote. There were lots of things we couldn't do. 

‍

My mom couldn't get a credit card, literally, and my mom is a brilliant woman, college educated, couldn't get a credit card if my dad didn't co-sign it with her. You know what I mean? That was not that long ago, these kinds of things. 

‍

But I remember when I was talking with you, Monique, and I'm so aware that as a White woman there's one thing. And then you add the layer of being a Black woman in a country where there are so many more layers of the different cultural messages. Both from the dominant culture and also from your own about how you're supposed to resist.

‍

Monique: And, so, when you think about that, even when you talk about people of color, and I am sensitive to that, there are many people of color that can possibly resonate. I tend to have to say even when we talk about this people-pleasing, this fawning, I have to step out from underneath that label. And I have to say, "I am a Black woman." Because I get lost even in the label of people of color.

‍

Alison: Can you tell me more about that?

‍

Monique: Yes, I just think that Black women's, our experiences are so unique. 

‍

Alison: Yes. 

‍

Monique: So very unique, and I think that because of the uniqueness of those experiences. That expectation of, "You are going to put it on your back. You're going to carry the weight of-." And that's kind of like a fill in the blank. So the women had to do that. When their men were stripped away for from them. And I'm also thinking of, I don't know if you would've, recently, have seen The Black Panther?

‍

Alison: Oh, yes. Wakanda?

‍

Monique: Yes.

‍

Alison: Yes.

‍

Monique: And, so, I'm even thinking about some of the themes I felt in that movie. When the queen had to talk about her husband, and just the absence of the Black man. So there is this expectation that the Black woman has to do these things. We have to protect, and we have to provide, we have to do. So that can be lost when, sometimes, we talk about this people of color label. 

‍

So I have to step out from underneath that and say, "But as a Black woman, this is my experience. This is what I am having to tease through, and discern, and embody." Definitely it is going to tell us a whole lot of stuff even before our mind catches up with it, right?

‍

Alison: Yes.

‍

Monique: So, yes, we have some very unique experiences in terms of that expectation. That expecting to do what others need and want for us to do.

‍

Alison: If I'm hearing you right, it's like what comes with that is an extra layer of pressure to do things in a certain way. And you are coming in and saying, "What if part of the resistance, part of honoring the strength is to honor the lament, is to honor the weight, and get healthy and heal."

‍

I just want to pause and just say, man, what a beautiful. Again, to circle back to, then, you stepping into the church to bring all of that light into all of that healing right there. It's just a beautiful picture to me. It's a picture, to me, I think we can all learn from.

‍

Monique: Mm-hmm.

‍

Alison: Why shouldn't we be bringing the healing into the church? Versus going to church and then go into therapy. I just think that is a brilliant, beautiful way that you began to use your voice, that was so hard-earned. So hard earned. 

‍

Monique: I mean, if you think about just even the people-pleasing, if you will, even of the bridegroom. The Scriptures will teach us that we are nourished, we are cherished, we are going to be presented without spots and without blemish. This is the work of Jesus. So are we pleasing people by trying to hide our blemishes, and our spots, and our wrinkles?

‍

Can we free even those of us who, you know I love the church and are in the church to say, "I'm blemished, spotted, I'm wrinkled." So I tend to think of that on a systemic level. How even systemically do we find ourselves in this fawning, this pleasing? And Galatians 1:10 clearly states, "Are we going to please God or are we going to please man?" And I think that's interesting, that's black/white. And I think that there are places where it's clear. 

‍

But there's a whole lot of nuance, as you very well know, that we have to have to deal with, and we have to live within. And I think that we have to be careful that we are not communicating to people, "That to do this is pleasing to God." When it can really just be you're pleasing men.

‍

Alison: Man, that's so nuanced. And it actually makes me think of this idea of there is a way in which we can, almost in an unhealthy way, use the fawn response or pleasing with God,

‍

Monique: Yes, Ma'am.

‍

Alison: Because we're trying to, and I love what you're saying, it's when we're trying to cover over the blemishes to please God., which is not what God wants. God wants the honest, real, person that we are. 

‍

And, so, that trickles into our relationship with God, to our relationships with the church. Versus really showing up and it requires so much safety, Monique, and you and I have talked about this, but to be able to show up with our blemishes. I feel like there is so much tenderness even in this conversation because we're going to fumble, but to show up. I picture like, "This is who I am."

‍

Monique: Mm-hmm. 

‍

Alison: And the problem is folks will hurt us when we do that. And, so, it's tricky, we have to create this safety so that people feel like they can. And, again, it gets back to what I think is so beautiful about what you did, is bring the counseling right into the church setting, to begin to model what that looks like for folks. 

‍

I want to just touch on your new book, you co-authored with Clarence Shuler, it's called Finding Hope. It just so flows right out of what we're talking about. Finding Hope in a Dark Place: Facing Loneliness, Depression, and Anxiety with the Power of Grace. And one of the things that really, when I read it, stood out to me, and it's a lot of what we're talking about, was the friendship. 

‍

Monique: Mm-hmm.

‍

Alison: The way that just it wasn't even therapy, it was just the way that you showed up for your friend who was struggling with depression.

‍

Monique: Mm-hmm.

‍

Alison: And, so, in the book, he's telling his story of struggling. And you come along as his expert, his friend, who's an expert to give language to some of the experience of depressions. Suicidal ideas, shown anxiety, from a more clinical background. 

‍

But really you can tell it was your friendship, that just brought so much hope to him. And it was just such a beautiful picture of, it's like what you said, the little joys. Here is a friend who just sent me a text and said, "Are you doing okay?" And that gave him some relief. It was just a really beautiful picture. 

‍

So I wanted to just hear a little bit more, from you, on your experience, again, of using this hard-earned voice. That you have to go to the journey, to the center of the earth to find it. And then here you are coming alongside so beautifully in this book. What was that like for you?

‍

Monique: It was hard, very hard. Very hard to speak into that because it goes back to, "Okay, is it enough?"

‍

"Is it too much?"

‍

"How do I get this right?" I want to please him and his publisher. Because when he came to me with that idea, I'm like, "What?" And he was like, "Yes." They just really felt like this would be really great to have the voice of a therapist. And he was like, "I'm thinking I know the one to get."

‍

And I was like, "Oh, my God." So that was very difficult to find my voice, I'd given him some submissions and he was like, "Is this all you've got?"

‍

And I'm like, "Oh, God, so I'm not pleasing."

‍

But then he's like, "No, Monique, say the thing, say it." And I'm going, "Okay."

‍

And, so, I didn't want to be accused of saying too much or now it's more about me. So it was hard for me to figure out how to strike that balance. But, thankfully, yes he was just real gracious and just like, "Monique, just do your thing, that's what I need you to do."

‍

And I said, "Okay." So it was a beautiful experience once I finally found my flow, if you will. I hope that people do understand, like you were saying, that it's not so much based on me being a therapist, but what the power of relationship can do. 

‍

And I like how we're almost rounding out with that. Where we've opened up but not even shared about just you, and what people say about you. Being in relationship with you, relating with you, and it's a powerful thing. I know, I have benefited from being in relationship with you. You have given me corrective emotional experiences on various levels and I just won't even name those, but you have.

‍

So when we think about this context of just in relationship. Thinking about this grace that is sufficient, that the Scripture tells us. But when we find it in those dark places, it is when we name like I did with Clarence. Like, "You have to be disappointed." And he wanted to skirt around it and deny, "No, I'm just mad." 

‍

I'm like, "You know what, for Black men, usually, they're going to be mad before they're going to be depressed." So that can be and most people are going to misconstrue that, "Another angry, Black man."

‍

No, maybe it's another depressed Black man. 

‍

Alison: Yes. 

‍

Monique: So being able to name that and to be able to say, "There is grace in that place." If the Scripture tells us, "Where we are weak is where He is made strong". So it is right there at that point of intersection where grace is found. 

‍

Alison: Yes.

‍

Monique: So I just believe that it is imperative, again, going back to church, we are many members but we are one. If we are going to be able to rejoice when others rejoice, weep when they weep. Shoulder life with people, shoulder to shoulder life with people, or even at times bear the infirmities of those who are weak. Those who are strong at that moment. 

‍

And that's my emphasis at that moment because we're going to have our day. We're going to have our day. We have to be able to name ours, in order for us to name it in others even when they're trying not to. 

‍

Alison: Yes, that's good. 

‍

Monique: And I think that that's where grace is found. I think that that's where grace is found. And, so, I just believe that if we're going to be healthy individuals, if we're going to be a healthy society. 

‍

If we're going to be a healthy church, we have got to name what we are feeling. We have to allow other people to do it and we have to allow them the space to do it, and also provide adequate support and tools to help them to navigate their way through those dark times.

‍

Alison: Yes, it's a beautiful book. But just that friendship, what you just said, and the way that you helped them name what was happening was really powerful, and I learned a lot about friendship. I've thought about it. I'm like, "Oh, so much of it is just naming. I see you, I see what's happening, this makes sense. Your experience is valid. I'm with you in this." 

‍

We don't have to fix it; we are just coming alongside. And it's been an honor for me that you invited me in, Monique, because a little bit into our friendship to say, "Yes, I get it. I see it." It's meant so much to me and I've learned so much from you through that book, about, "Oh, this is how we do it, just for our friends." I know, I feel so much pressure. "I got to fix the problem."

‍

"I got to give them the solution."

‍

"I've got to give them the nugget of wisdom that'll change their life."

‍

And it's really all I have to do is be like, "I see it. I get it, that's right. I hear you, that's valid. How're you doing?" It's just really showing up. And that to bring this full circle, I think, I started this off saying, sometimes, it's hard for me to know what's the difference between genuine kindness. Genuine, just showing up for others and pleasing, and that is getting at it. 

‍

It's when I've done, and I love how you say this, it's when I've done enough work in my own self. That it's like, "Oh, I know that and I can come with you and name that." Not because I'm trying to get something from you or feel like I'm the best friend here or whatever. 

‍

It's because I've done the work in myself and now I have the ability and the capacity to take that God-given empathy, and that God-given kindness to say, "Oh yes, this is real and I'm with you in this." And there's a with-ness in that and it's powerful and I'm beginning to understand that difference. 

‍

Monique: Mm-hmm. 

‍

Alison: But your friendship with Clarence and the way that was modeled in the book was really instructive to me. It was really powerful and really helped me, I think about it a lot and how I show up for other people. 

‍

Monique: Mh-hmm. 

‍

Alison: It was subtle, it was a nuanced, but it was very powerful.

‍

Monique: Yes, oh, thank you for saying that. That means a lot coming from you. It's just easy, and I know you know this, in my final comment. It's easy for us to get lost in other people if we don't know, like you say, who we are enough, we're not aware enough. 

‍

We're not going to ever have a 100% that glorification is going to take place on the other side. But at least do we know even what our limits are? What we lack? What we might be trying to get from other people? If we are not aware of that, then, we so easily are going to fall into that. 

‍

So, yes, it is so important for us to do that intrapersonal work. So that we can then be able to love the Lord our God with everything that we have, and then love our neighbor as thyself. And I think that right there is the cornerstone.

‍

Alison: That's right. There's a term in IFS, in Internal Family Systems that I kind of like it, but they call you have to have a critical mass of self.

‍

Monique: Mm-hmm.

‍

Alison: And what they mean by that is just enough. Nobody is ever going to be really there, but just enough of that self-led, and we would say the Holy Spirit-led self. 

‍

The spirit-led place versus the, "I'm trying to please, fawn, cope, survive, get you to like me, whatever the things are that go along with people-pleasing. There is enough self of a spirit-led self, "No, I'm showing up for this person out of the best of me."

‍

Monique: That is right.

‍

Alison: What would you say, Monique, to that young girl, now, who watched you know her brother and her mother, and learned how to just wave, and smile, and nod. What would you say to her now?

‍

Monique: Oh, my God, oh, without crying, "That is going to be okay. It's going to be okay. That, literally, all things do work together for good even the things that are not good things can work together for good." I think that's what I would say. "Just hold on, hang on, even when you don't want to. Hang on, all things will work together. They will work together for a good."

‍

Alison: That's beautiful, thank you. I want everyone who's struggling to hear that, that's a word, that's a hard-earned word. What would you say to those who are listening, who struggle with pleasing others and have a hard time really feeling that joy of being God's beloved child?

‍

Monique: Yes, that you're worth it. You are worth the hard work. You are worth telling others to hold on. You are worth saying, "No." You are worth saying, "Let me think about that and get back to you." So, in other words, you are worth creating that space to do whatever work you need to do. 

‍

To be able to hear not only your own voice, not only your own beat to your heart. But also how God is speaking to that voice within and how He is also attempting to slow down that beat of our heart, when it's anxious. Or to even speed it up when it's slowly beating because we're lethargic, you're worth creating that space.

Alison: That's beautiful. What is bringing out the best of you right now?

‍

Monique: Oh, my goodness, the fact that God has graced me, favored me with relationships, again, such as you, that have allowed me to show up as Monique. Not who people think Monique should be or expect her to be, but who Monique is, that brings out the best of me, have that safety to just be, that's it.

‍

Alison: I love that. And what needs or desires are you working to protect in your life right now?

‍

Monique: You have said it, repeatedly, and I know people can't see us, but I'm over here shaking my head, profusely, that hard-earned voice and that wisdom. 

‍

So many times we can be made to doubt, and to wonder, and to maybe feel like, "You are selfish" or whatever else the case may be. But that hard-earned voice and the wisdom, that is what I'm working hard to protect and I surely encourage all others to do the same. 

‍

Alison: Yes, we need your voice, it matters. And, especially, the hard-earned voice that has been through the fire, it's powerful, it's holy.

‍

How can people connect with you, Monique? Your work, your podcast, your resources, your services?

‍

Monique: Yes, they can reach out to me via my website. It's drmoniquesmith, not to my father, gadson.com. It's G-A-D-S-O-N, I know many people spell my last name many different ways, but it's G-A-D-S-O-N. 

‍

I'm like you, I have that kind of love/hate relationship with social media, oh, my God. But I try to hang out on Instagram every now and again @drmoniquesmithgadson. And every now and again I might send a tweet, and I may show up on Facebook as well.

‍

But go to the website is the main way and Instagram, probably, would be the main way. The podcast is, And The Church Said, and that's another story too. In terms of just voice and just following what the Lord is saying to do and how I've even had to learn that maybe it's a tool of healing.

‍

Alison: Hmm, that's beautiful, thank you. I so appreciate the time you gave us today and I'm so grateful for you.

‍

Monique: Thank you so much for having me, Alison. I appreciate you.