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EP –
29
Relationships
Perfectionism and Proving Your Worth

OK, buckle up, today's conversation on The Best of You podcast goes deep, and we both get really honest about own struggles. I could have talked with Mary for hours about how to get off the treadmill of perfecting and proving your worth-and start claiming the life you actually want. You do not want to miss the end where we get into social media, the curse of comparison, and the approval chain from which no one is immune.

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We touch on so much in this episode, including:

1. The hidden fears that drive us to perfect and prove our way into belonging

2. If we let go of working to earn the approval of others, then what?

3. The moment Mary discovered that chasing gold stars was not leading her to what she actually wanted

4. The pitfalls and perils of social media

5.  How to get out of comparison traps

6.  The voice in our heads that keeps us running in circles

7.  The real mark of emotional health (and it's *not* never failing or never feeling hurt)  

8. 3 questions to ask yourself as you stop chasing approval:

  • If tomorrow, it were all gone:
    • What would you do differently?
    • What would you roll up your sleeves and do the hard work of rebuilding again?
    • What doesn't seem to matter anymore? (Questions from Slow Growth Equals Strong Roots)

Connect with Mary at www.marymarantz.com/quiz

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Thanks to our sponsors:
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Music by Andy Luiten/Sound editing by Kelly Kramarik

While Dr. Cook is a counselor, the content of this podcast and any of the products provided by Dr. Cook are not specific counseling advice nor are they a substitute for individual counseling. The content and products provided on this podcast are for informational purposes only.

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Resources
EP –
28
Relationships
The Pain of Performing For Others

On today's episode of The Best of You podcast, I'm talking with the wonderful and wise Toni Collier who shares bravely about finding herself stuck in the performance trap, and how she clawed her way out. Toni's capability & high capacity helped her survive, but she also wound up exhausted, broken, and numbing. As Toni says, "I had a source, which is God, but the resources I did not have." And she had to learn to discover a more authentic, wholehearted way.

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Here's what we discuss:

1. How capability, strength, and achievement can turn into survival strategies
2. Why we turn toward numbing as a way to cope with pain
3. What finally drove her to get help
4. How she started to find healthy relationships and find her way out of the pain.
5. Practical ways she keeps the performer part of her in check now.
6. What she would say to her young performer's heart now.
(Be ready for some tears on this one. . .)

Grab a copy of Toni's new book Brave Enough to Be Broken wherever books are sold.

‍

Thanks to our sponsor:

Music by Andy Luiten/Sound editing by Kelly Kramarik

While Dr. Cook is a counselor, the content of this podcast and any of the products provided by Dr. Cook are not specific counseling advice nor are they a substitute for individual counseling. The content and products provided on this podcast are for informational purposes only.

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Resources

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Transcript

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Alison: Hey everyone, I'm Dr. Alison, and I'm so glad you're here to discover what brings out the best of you. This podcast is all about breaking free from painful patterns, mending the past, and discovering our true selves in God. I can't wait to get started as we learn together how to become the best version of who we are with God's help.

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Hey everyone. Welcome back to this week's episode of The Best of You podcast. Where we are going through The Seven Ps of Managing Perceptions. The ways that parts of us try to get us to cope. Try to get us to show up in our lives that keep us from authentic connection with others, with God, and with parts of ourselves that need our attention. And today we're going to talk about a performer part. 

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This is that part of you that can shape-shift, that can play different roles, that is adept at getting the job done. It might be a part of you that achieves, or it might be a part of you that just knows how to get the job done. And knows how to show up in whatever way is necessary in order to earn the approval, earn the affection of other people. 

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And my guest today, to talk about this performer part, is a new friend of mine, Toni Collier. Toni is an amazing woman who's the author of a brand new book called Brave Enough to Be Broken. And she's also got a very adept performer part of her, that did a lot to help her survive and almost got the best of her. 

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Toni is a coach and she's the founder of Broken Crayons Still Color. An international women's ministry that helps women process their brokenness and reclaim hope. And before we get started with Toni, I wanted to read you a few of these quotes from her new book. That really stood out to me and I just loved because they fit so well, they align so well with everything we talk about on this podcast.

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That we have to trust God. We want to turn toward God in everything we're doing, especially, in this work of healing. And we also have to equip ourselves with the tools that God gives us, which is so much the focus of this podcast.

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So here are some quotes, just to get started, before I bring Toni on.

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"In the past, I would plead for God to take away the pain. Today I pray for God to be with me in the pain, as He and I journey toward hope."

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Another quote, "I believe that Jesus is in the valleys with us. But even more than that, He wants to give us every tool to claw our way out. He's smart, and because He is the Creator of all and is working through and in everything. Not only is He spiritually present with us in every moment, but He's also giving us the practical tools to live redemption out day-by-day." 

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I just love that Toni, in this book, offers real spiritual wisdom as well as practical tools of how she dug herself out, and how you can dig yourself out too. So with that, Toni, welcome to The Best of You podcast. I'm so glad you're here.

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Toni: I'm so grateful to be here, and I'm so excited to dive into the hard things and bring Jesus in it too. 

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Alison: You are just so open, and that's a big part of your path toward healing. But I want to just start a little bit at the beginning. In Brave Enough to Be Broken, in the very first chapter, you write, "I hadn't even begun to process the childhood wounds. that dug deep into my performer's heart."

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Toni: Mm.

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Alison: It started with taking care of your mom after she'd suffered a massive stroke, when you were eight. And immediately, of course, my inner therapist, I was like, "What do you mean by performer's heart?" Tell us a little bit more about that performer part of you. That from what I read, stepped in really, legitimately, had to step in, but then got a little extreme, you were young. So tell me a little bit about what you mean by that.

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Toni: When I first started my counseling journey. My counselor recommended a book called The Performer's Heart, and I started to dive into it, and I was like, "Man, this is me." Essentially what was happening was, and this is probably going to get just a little intense real fast. 

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But what was happening was, yes, my mom was so sick, she had a massive stroke when I was eight years old. She was paralyzed on her left side. We found out she had a blood clot, she lost her large intestine, I mean, really life-threatening things. And because my father went to overdrive at work, and he really started to kind of hide in his work, and my brothers went to drugs, and all the things, it was just me and my mom. 

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And, so, there were moments where if I didn't know how to drive my mom to the doctors she may have died. And, so, now, I'm growing up with this idea that if I don't take care of something. That if I don't lead something, if I'm not the one that shows up, then, things will die. That's how extreme my body was processing it. Is, "I have to be in charge, I have to do it. I have to protect everyone or they'll die."

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And, so, what happened was, obviously, that leaked over into all of these other areas of my life. I also wanted to make my dad proud because if I did really well if I performed really well, he would show up. He would come back. He would say he's proud. He would leave work to come to my cheerleading competition or my acting competition. 

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And, so, there was just this ping-pong of like, "I'm performing to make sure that everyone stays safe and alive. I'm also performing for attention. For someone to just look at me and say, 'We're proud of you. We see you working so hard to keep everything afloat.'" And, obviously, that then manifests into college, and then it leaked over into ministry. What does that look like? 

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Well, you stand on stages and you perform and you don't share what's actually happening. So you don't get healed, and then you are an unhealthy leader in ministry because you're just performing. So, yes, all that.

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Alison: It's unbelievable, I mean, just to put the juxtaposition I, probably, already am bent in you toward being very capable, high-achieving, I'm sure that was already in there. But then you overlay the trauma of what happened to your mom, probably other traumas, where you, literally, had to step up. You had to step up and perform beyond what any child should have to do. 

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Toni: Yes.

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Alison: You're still performing at school. You're still all the things you just said, you're getting affirmed for all. It makes so much sense, to me, that the message, what I'm hearing you say, is there's a message this part of you picked up. That was like, "Well, I can do it, I am doing it, and no one else is going to do it either." To some degree.

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Alison: Oh, yes, 100%.

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Alison: And no one was taking you aside, Toni, and saying, "This isn't your job." It sounds like there wasn't really anyone stepping in.

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Toni: Yes, I think that's what I would say hurts the most, when I'm in counseling, when I'm processing with my counselor. The thing that gets that frog up in my throat, it gets me a little eyes to tear is the question like, "Where was everybody? Where were the school counselors? Where were my other family members? And, of course, where were you, God?"

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Alison: Mm-hmm. 

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Toni: In my deepest, darkest moments, at the beginning of my healing journey, I was like, "God, where were you? Why weren't you protecting me?" Which then manifested into the lie that God doesn't protect you. 

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But all along, He actually was right there protecting me from so many things, and bottling up every single one of my tears. His 'Withness' was not the question. It was, well, what do you do when everyone around you is not with you? How do you reconcile that? And it was tough, so tough.

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Alison: Yes, I talk a lot of time about being spiritually strong. We have all the belief in God but, absolutely, no one, I mean, we still need the skills, the tools to learn how to live that. Now, the sense I get from your book, Toni, without spoiling it for anybody. Just the vulnerability that you share in the book is you go between, and I talk about this a lot in Boundaries for Your Soul. So you go between this over-performing, and over-producing, getting the job done, all the things on one hand, and then numbing. Which makes sense, "Let's shut it down." 

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Because those tender, vulnerable, sweet young parts of you were not getting the care that they needed. So tell me a little bit about that. At what point, I'm sure that's not a conscious choice. "Gee, I'm over-performing, so, golly, let's numb it down." How did that happen? If you put yourself back in young Toni when you started numbing. I don't know if there's a story that comes to mind or a first moment where it was just...

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Were you conscious? I mean, reading your story, now, it's like, "of course you did. Of course, you shut yourself down. It makes perfect sense." But at the time, I'm just curious if you were conscious of it or if it was more just kind of desperation, "And I'm just doing what I need to do in the moment to survive."

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Toni: Yes, 100%. I mean, I think it's the latter. I think, as children, as teens, we're so young, we're so resilient, but we are doing what we can to survive. And the very things that we've used to cope, growing up, becomes the things that take us out as adults. It's like, "Whoa, that is not a good behavior girls and boys." But I was just doing the best I could. 

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Alison: Oh, yes. 

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Toni: And the moment was when I was 13, I'll never forget it, I went over the summer to stay with my godparents and I just loved their life so much. They had a whole family, no one was sick. They had these fun things that they did. They went to basketball games, and football games and all their kids were able to be kids. And, so, of course, when you catch a glimpse of that, it's almost like a mirror to your pain and you're like, "Darn it, I want my life to be like this." And I did not want to go home at all. 

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Alison: Mm-hmm.

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Toni: I remember returning, and that was the first time that I'd really fallen vulnerable to a much older guy in high school. Who was very sexually manipulative for my entire freshman year, in high school. He would just perform these sexual acts on me until I lost my virginity at 13 in my bedroom when my parents were gone. 

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And it was the first time, I think, that I had found something to numb with and it was just this escape, that sex gave to me. And he also introduced me to marijuana and drinking. And, so, that just added to the numbing. I look back now and I'm like, "Yes, it was that summer when I experienced a whole family or what looked like a whole family, and I just got so sad and I didn't want to feel that anymore. And, so, that's when I started numbing, absolutely.

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Alison: That makes so much sense, the juxtaposition is so... and I hear this a lot, almost tasting, or glimpse this beauty, or this safety in this family where you maybe could even be a kid. 

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Toni: Yes. 

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Alison: Where you didn't have to be the adult, you could just be. A glimpse of it, while beautiful and good, also stirred up all that pain and all that sadness. And what 13-year-old knows how to deal with that? You were not equipped. And, so, someone comes in with a pseudo-false version, and it makes so much sense.

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Toni: I like what you said about a 13-year-old not being equipped. And what I'm excited about in this book, is that I think we have a lot of adults that aren't equipped either. 

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Alison: Yes. 

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Toni: I was numbing from 13 all the way up until 24. I got a divorce, I finally, decided to clean my life up, but I didn't have the tools and the resources to really claw my way out. I had to go get them. I had a source, which was God, but the resources, I didn't. And it's unfortunate because we have so many 25, 30, 50, 60, 70, year olds who also aren't equipped to heal, and to get into counseling, and have all these other resources. 

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I think that's something that we should pay attention to. I bet there's someone that's like, "Ooh, snap, I'm 35 years old, am I equipped?" And it's like, yes, we should be asking ourselves that question right now. 

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Alison: A 100%, I love that, that you're saying because part of the reason you weren't equipped is because the adults who were supposed to be caring for you, weren't equipped.

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Toni: Yes.

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Alison: And, so, again, we always talk about this. I always want to add the caveat, all the moms listening, all the dads listening, all the parents, we don't say this to shame. As our friend, Curt Thompson, says, "We say this to name what's true." Not to shame, but to name. When those caregivers are not there and not equipped, there is a fallout for that that we have to be real about.

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Toni: And I say this all the time, and this was a huge part of my healing journey with my parents, is that there is a difference between people that are wicked and those that are weak. And the truth is, my mom could have done nothing. 

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There was nothing else that she could have done with her health. It was not her fault that she got sick, that she had all these medical issues. There was nothing else she could have done. And, for my dad, when I started healing from things in my past, with my father. I realized that he had never had another example of parenting then. His dad and his dad... 

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And, so, I think that's so good, Alison, we've got to give people the grace to be imperfect as we all are. And from that place, I think, it's honestly so much easier to forgive if we're being honest. So many things were reconciled in my past, from just understanding that my parents were just broken, imperfect human beings. That needed the same grace that I ended up needing as well. 

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Alison: And we could hold true things in our own healing journey, as adults, of, "I didn't get what I needed." And that is true, there is a reason for that. And sometimes we're more there. Sometimes we go through phases of anger, we go through phases, and that's valid. And then we get to this point of, "And here are the reasons that I didn't get what I needed." And it sounds like you've done a lot of that work. 

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I'm curious, Toni, so you're numbing all the way through 23. But from what I understand, as you tell the story, you're also high-performing all the way through too well, you're doing both at a high level. First of all, were you aware of that divide? Were you aware of that split? And was anybody around you or could you keep it hidden?

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Toni: Oh, I don't know, first of all, I thought I was going to be a lawyer. Which is probably why I kept it hidden so well, and no, I did not recognize it in the moment. I say this all the time, though, "I was living, legitimately, two different lives."

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I mean, I really was, my counselor calls it my ability to be a chameleon. I can just bend, and move, and be everything everybody wants me to be, which is a part of that performer part. And I was 16, I graduated high school, but I was also, literally, sneaking out of my parents' house, stealing the car, going to smoke weed, all the stuff. 

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I was captain of the cheerleading team. I was in the debate team, thespian society as an actress. I was winning awards and setting records in high school because, again, there was this back and forth of, "I got to make my dad proud. I want him to say he's proud so bad, so I got to fight."

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But the only way for me to have the strength to endure, to actually push forward, is to numb all the painful parts. They cannot come in the room because they're going to freaking destroy me. And, so, I just pushed them all underneath the rug. And, unfortunately, as you know and we know, and we should all know you leak until you implode and then you explode. 

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And that's what happened at 23 and 24 it just all bubbled up to the surface and it was like, "Oh, I can't do both. I've got to find some health here. I've got to stop allowing the pendulum to swing back and forth between these two extremes and find a rhythm, that's healthy for my life."

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Alison: It's unbelievable. I mean, as we always say, "I honor the parts of you that we're working so hard. To keep you going by performing, achieving, and numbing." That's how you survived. Talk us through a little bit that moment when you realized, "This isn't going to work anymore."

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Toni: Oh, my gosh, first of all, I lost everything. I'd gotten into a marriage at 19. Gotten engaged, moved to a whole different state, it was a crazy guy. I knew him for like three months, it was crazy. But I was performing. I was like, "Look at me, I'm young, I'm about to get married. I'm an adult, here I am, look at me go." And I ended up being in a really toxic and verbally abusive marriage. 

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But I had a daughter in that and it took me a while to leave and I finally left. And then I was also in a really spiritually abusive church, and I transitioned out of that church as well. And next thing you know I am a single mom, I am living with another single mom. Because I can't afford a place for myself, looking for a job. I had been in ministry, I'd been on stages and now I hadn't and I just lost everything.

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And I also decided to stop numbing. I'm like, "I want to start over. I want a new life. I want to get it together." Well, when you stop numbing, it's when really all the things start to come to the surface. I was doing drugs, smoking, alcohol to numb, and anxiety set in. And I was like, "Whoa, what's this?"

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And it's like, "Oh, well, you've always been battling with anxiety. You just didn't know it because you were numbing it and hiding it so much." And, so, in that moment, I just remember pleading with God to take the pain away. Because it was almost like I had woken up to the reality that I had a really hard first 20 somewhat years of my life. Because numbing keeps you from that, it tries to keep you safe until it doesn't anymore.

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And I just crumbled. I had to send my daughter to be with my parents for that summer, so that I could rebuild my life and figure out what was next. And I knew that I needed to go into counseling, I just was so scared to. Because in our culture, in the African-American culture, it was like, "What are you even talking about? Why are you going to go see a shrink? Are you crazy?"

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I remember when I told my mom, I was like, "Hey, I think, I'm going to go to counseling." She, literally, picked up the phone and called me. She was like, "Are you bipolar? What's going on girl?" And I'm like, "Well, okay, I actually don't know if I'm bipolar or not. However, I would love to go find out."

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But it was just this big stigma of like, "You've got to be crazy psychotic to even think about going to a counselor's office." And, so, I just focused on getting my finances together. But more than anything, I wanted to be a healthy mom, that's what drove me. I don't even think I had the confidence in myself to heal for me, it was for my daughter. I didn't want her to go through what I went through. And, so, I just went and did my work, but it was extremely painful. Extremely painful.

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<Break >

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Alison: I just want to say, Toni, the word brave, the fact that brave is in the title of this book. I just have tears in my eyes, I mean, the performer part of you that was so bravely taking care of your mom. That was so bravely showing up at school, getting all the stuff done. The numbing part of you honestly and truly, that was so bravely trying to help you cope, in whatever way it knew how. 

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But honestly, then, just what you just described, the bravery to go, "I've got a little girl and I got to stop, and I don't even know how." Here's what I love, you say this in the book and it just blessed me, and I want to read it. 

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You say you prayed, "Please, please take the pain away. Please, God, why does my life have to be so hard? Please take the pain away."

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And then you describe feeling a moment of relief, which is beautiful. And then your next sentence is, "That was also the day that I decided to find a counselor."

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Toni: Yes.

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Alison: I just thought that was so fascinating. You cried out and then you did that brave step of saying, "I got to look at all this stuff."

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Toni: Yes.

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Alison: Tell me a little bit about that. When you reached out for that support, how did that go, initially? Was it scary? Was it pretty quickly like, "Oh, no, this is working." How did that go?

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Toni: Yes, it's interesting because everything was happening at one time. So I had experienced this really a toxic church. And I was like, "Oh, gosh, ugh, am I going to go to another church again?" I was like, "No, I'm not." And then, all of a sudden, I was like, "Man, I just really want to be in church." And, so, I visited North Point Ministries and messed around, and found an incredible church community, with a healthy pastor and all kinds of great things. And, so, that was happening at one time. 

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And then I started realizing that the people that I had surrounded myself with, I just couldn't anymore. If I wanted a life change, I actually had to change my community as well. And, so, honestly, I think I stumbled into this because I just cut everybody off. I was like, "Okay, nobody talks to me, I need to get my life together."

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But what it did was it made room for a healthy community. Because, oftentimes, we want new friends, but we've got all these other friends that are in our inner circle and they're like, "Well, how do I transition them out? What do I do?" And I talk about that in the book, too. How do you transition people to save space for you? 

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And, so, that was happening at once, and then later down the line, I met my, now, husband, Sam, and I was like, "Who is this guy?" And he just loved me so much and I was like, "Dude, what's happening?" He was so emotionally aware. He was like, "Hey, I want to talk to you about my feelings."

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I'm like, "You're a guy, you don't have feelings." Which is what I learned from my dad. All of it was happening at one time. What was great about starting to experience a healthy community, a healthy church, a healthy boyfriend, was that it was a mirror that showed me that what I had been doing wasn't healthy, and I think, for many of us, that's what really helps. 

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When we start to pursue health, it starts to overflow in all areas of our lives. And then it starts to show the very things that you're battling with, and that's what was happening. As I sat in the counseling office, no, it wasn't cute at first. 

As a matter of fact, I went up in there with my arms crossed and I was like, "What are you going to do girl?" And she's like, "Tell me your whole life." And I gave her my whole little story and I spit it off all fast like nothing's happened at all.

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And she's like, "Are you okay?"

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And I was like, "Yes, I'm fine. What do you even mean? I'm good to go." I was very standoffish. I felt very unprotected, and then I realized that I had a part to play in counseling. If I wanted to actually heal, then I needed to open up. And, again, it was because I had friends, now, that were like, "Oh, I went to counseling and I've got this homework I've got to do."

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And I'm like, "You do your homework? What?"

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It's like, "Yes, you actually need to go and do your work outside of the counseling office." And I was like, "Oh, okay, I'm going to do that." And, so, it was just this process of all this revelation and witnessing healthy people, and just owning it for myself.

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Alison: I love that. There are a couple of things you said in there. Again, first of all, just this partnership with you doing the work and, obviously, with God. But there are a couple of words you said that I just want to pause on because I love it. I think you said, stumbling. You said, "I'm stumbling my way. I'm stumbling around, stumbling my way, I happened upon this church." 

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And what I hear in that is, and I think you say this in the book, but so many people are like, "What is my five-step plan?" And it's just you had a new direction. You're like, "I'm going to move toward healing. I don't know where to get it, so I'm going to stumble around, happened upon." And I hear this all the time: toxic church, toxic church. . . "Oh, my golly, this is a healthy church." It's just, "There's some health here. There's some health in this man that I'm dating."

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It's messy that process, and I really appreciate that you're saying, "I was doing a lot of different things at once. I just knew I had to change. And, so, I threw a lot of things at the wall and noticed what stuck, noticed what was healthy." And I really appreciate just that honesty about that because the process is not always easy. Especially as, to use your words, we're clawing our way out. It's just trying to go in the right direction. Trying to go in a healthier direction. 

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Toni: I love that you bring that up, too, because that was the reason why I even started my women's organization, Broken Crayons Still Color. Because healing isn't, I mean, we know this, we've heard the quote, "Healing is not linear." It's this weird, windy, tight-squeezed process. And I really wanted to try a little bit to put legs to some of this healing stuff. 

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A roadmap, if you will, of what I did because I know that there are people out there that are just like, "I don't even know how to find counseling. I don't even know what it means to have a healthy friend. I don't know what boundaries are. I don't know how to put those up and have those hard conversations."

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And I just think it's good to have a roadmap. It's good to have a one, two, three-step. But just like you're saying, if you're just going towards hope, I just believe that you'll get there. 

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Alison: Yes. 

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Toni: If you're just like, "I just want a brighter day. I want to do better." If you're humble enough to say, "I'm not getting everything right. I've contributed to some of these situations. I've contributed to some of my pain. I've been a victim maybe in the past, but I don't have to stay a victim." Those hope-filled statements and declarations, I think we'll get there. I really do believe that.

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Alison: And it can be messy. I love what you're saying, even with the boundaries. I talk a lot to people about scripts, and how to do it, and how to say it, and it's all helpful. And, then, sometimes, there's a part of me that's like, "And just do it the best you can." And sometimes we do it real sloppily. It's okay, especially when you're at rock bottom, you just figure out how to get out and get out. It's not always pretty, and you can always go back later if you need to.

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Toni: Hey, I didn't say that right. . .

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Alison: Yes, right, if the person is someone who was worthy, they'll be there in the long run. If they weren't then. Now, a couple of more questions I want to touch on. Now you're a speaker, you are an author, you've had another baby, you're married. You've got all this stuff going on. You've got this organization. 

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That performer part of you, how do you keep that part of you? You're clearly an incredibly capable woman, it's a gift, it's a talent, it's beautiful. How do you keep that part of you in check? So that you're also making sure to stay in balance, stay in touch with the ongoing work of healing, and the hard things that we continue to face in life?

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Toni: Yes, absolutely, this was a real journey because the performer was deeply in me. It was in the fabric of my being. The first step was, I remember starting Broken Crayons Still Color, for the first time, and it was just a one-man show. It was just me a blog, I'm doing my thing. And, literally, a month after I started it, I started to feel the Lord's say to shut it down. 

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And I was like, "Oh, no, sir. No, you're not about to embarrass me out here. I have started something. I've got my name on it, I don't know what you're talking about." And He was like, "Shut it down." And I submitted to that and not only did He say, "Shut it down." But I also took a break off of social media. 

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Now, before that, if people can scroll all the way down on my Instagram, I was posting pictures of me on stage, "And look at my life now and look at who I am." I mean highlight reel all the way. After I took a three-month break off of social media, I came back and I realized that I was healing, I was doing a great job, but I had really just refocused the performer. The performer before was in a really toxic marriage and just pretending that it wasn't happening.

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Now, I wasn't pretending more than I was just glamorizing. I was just showing this very beautiful part. This now redeemed, still coloring part of my life. And the Lord was like, "Mm-hmm, sweetie pie, nothing is wasted. You have not walked through all of that for nothing."

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And, so, what I started doing was anytime I would post on social media, I would put it in my notes first. So I called this method like slowing down on the highway. So you know when you have to get off on the highway, and you're about to pass up your exit. The one thing my mom always told me is, "Don't try to speed to the exit if you're about to miss it, slow down. Slow down, get over, give yourself some time, slow down."

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I slow down now in everything that I do. In the way that I lead, in the way that I parent. I have to slow myself down, and I write my captions in notes and I pray over them, and I think about it, "Is this about me?" 

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I ask myself really hard and honest questions. "Is this about me, are we trying to perform, or is this pointing people to Jesus? Is this really authentic or what are you doing here, sweet girl? Are you just trying to be somebody that you're not?" And it's that way in my whole entire life.

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Alison: Mm-hmm. 

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Toni: One of my sayings that we have in our organization is "We don't get ahead of God. Because it is when we get ahead of God, then, we're performing out of our idols, out of our own confidence, all the things. And, so, it's just a lifestyle of slowing down, of asking God, of being certain that I'm doing it out of the overflow of who I am. It's  breaking up with balance, having a hundred tabs open versus marrying priorities.

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Alison: Mm-hmm.

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Toni: Where am I right now? 

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Alison: Mm-hmm. 

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Toni: And I think that's just awareness is, probably, what we call it. 

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Alison: I love that.

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Toni: Just knowing myself; I know what it feels like to perform 

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Alison: Mm-hmm. 

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Toni: And, so, if I start to drift into that, I got to check myself and slow it on down, and shut it down.

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Alison: I love that. What would you say, Toni, to that young, I don't know whether she's eight, 13, or 23, that young. 

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Toni: Look, you already cried about this, Alison, so I'm strong now. 

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Alison: What would you say to that young performer part of you now?

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Toni: Yes, I think I would just tell her two things. I would say number one God is kind. That means a lot to me because I grew up thinking God was this big mean God. And that He was at the end of the tunnel saying, "You have to get it right before you have access to Me." 

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When, now, I know that He's really the God that's lighting up the tunnel to get me through. And eight-year-old Toni, 13-year-old Toni, even 19-year-old Toni needed to know that God is really kind. 

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Our friend Dr. Curt Thompson says this as well, "Sometimes, it's not even the things that we go through, the brokenness that we go through, the grief that we have to carry. It's the pain and fear of doing it alone." A kind God is with you, and I just think I would tell her that. And then I would also say to her, "If you didn't do another thing. If you didn't do another thing in the world, you are so worthy."

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Alison: Mm-hmm. 

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Toni: And as simple as that is to hear, now. Now I don't even think it would impact me because I'm like, "Dang, I am a worthy." But nine-year-old Toni needed to hear that no one told her that. No one told her that she didn't have to perform for her worth, and I would tell her that.

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Alison: I love that, that's beautiful. What would you say to another woman, right now, who is feeling at the bottom of that pit and desperate to start clawing her way out?

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Toni: I think the one thing that I have been saying here, recently, is giving yourself permission to feel the pain and to be right there in that valley. I think that people can mistake this idea of being brave enough to be broken for, "Put your superhero cap on and go and do the hard thing no matter what."

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But the truth is there were ebbs and flows, in my healing journey. There were moments when I had to call my counselor and say, "Listen, every week I need a break, let's go biweekly. Right now, I need a break. This hurt, this last thing that we talked about, it was a lot for me." And even with my organization, I can recognize that there were moments where I used it as a crutch. The Broken Crayons Still Color and it's like, "Okay, it's broken it's okay. Let's keep it going and let's fix it, it's all good. Everybody just clean it all up."

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But really there is power in that valley that you're in right now. The pain that you're feeling right now, and there's grace for it, and there's patience for it. And, so, I would encourage that person, right now, to be in that valley, but know that we are not going to leave you there. God's not going to leave you there. There are mountains of hope to claw your way to and it is worth it. It is worth the work. And, so, I just want us to the kindness, just balance it both. 

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Alison: I love that. I love that the valley is painful, it's hard, and it is a season, it's not forever, and I love that. Almost to the slowing down and even just being able to name that you're in it, is part of the movement toward healing.

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I also love, I want to underscore what you said about the pacing that you needed to do with your therapy. You get to say, "Every week is too much for me. I need to slow it down or I need to."

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I love that you had the courage to say, "I got to go at my own pace here." And I want to tell people, we talk a lot on here about even therapists can push or try to get you to do. You have to advocate for yourself and say, "I'm in it, I'm doing the work and this is the pace that's working for me right now." So I really appreciate that you highlighted that. 

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All right, Toni, I just so appreciate you. Question I ask all of my guests, two questions, one, what or who is bringing out the best of you right now?

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Toni: Oh, can I be honest, my little four-month old is. I mean, the way he even looks at me and holds onto my hair. There is just this tenderness that I think babies give, that just reminds you that you can still be tender, too, as an adult, and vulnerable, and not able to feed yourself. He just reminds me that I can do that too. 

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I can just lay and not be able to hold my head up. And I think that's just such a beautiful picture of who God is. Just the God that made our little heads all wobbly and we can't even hold our neck up, and just so innocent, and fragile, and he's just like, "I've got you in the palm in my hand." So my little four-month old is doing a work in me right now.

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Alison: I love that. That's beautiful. And what needs and desires are you working to protect?

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Toni: Oh, I mean this is good because I am, literally, in a season, right now, now where I'm planning out my next year, and I've got to put some really hard boundaries around my time. One of the things that's been consistent in my life is that everyone said, "Oh, you have so much capacity."

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And I'm learning now that just because I have a lot of capacity doesn't mean I need to use it all. There can just be a season where we're just running on 60%. Now, it's not to say that 40% ain't there because I will crush it if I need to at a 100%. 

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However, I think I'm starting to convince myself and really believe that even 40% is okay. It's okay, it's just I'm only going to do 40% this week. And, so, yes, I want to get to a place where I can really protect that I need rest and I need the freedom to not fill up, and not be a performer all the way to a 100% percent all the time.

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Alison: I love that you're setting some gentle boundaries with that performer part of you, for the good of all of you. And I love this idea, we talk about all the time on here, this idea of creating some spaciousness. Just some space for margin and is what I hear you saying. Like, "Just because I can doesn't mean I have to. Just because I can doesn't mean I should."

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Toni: Yes.

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Alison: So I love that. Tell people where to find you. How to look you up and-

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Toni: All the things. 

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Alison: Yes, all the things. 

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Toni: So, it's Toni J Collier on everything, t-o-n-i-j-c-o-l-l-i-e-r. The book is called Brave Enough to Be Broken. I love it that you can order it anywhere where all the books are sold, all the things and, yes, that's what's happening.

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Alison: Well thank you so much for being here, today, and thanks for sharing your story so bravely, it's going to help a lot of people. 

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Toni: Thanks Alison. Dr. Alison, thanks for having me.

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Alison: You're awesome.

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EP –
27
Relationships
7 Ways We Manage Perceptions

We're kicking off a new series on The Best of You Podcast as we move into the last 2 months of the year. How do you shift from managing the perceptions of others to showing up more authentically? In today's episode, I cover the 7 ways we tend to manage perceptions and why it doesn't get us the real connections we crave. I also walk you through an exercise you can do NOW (as in, before the holiday haze sets in) to help you make brave decisions this holiday season.

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Here's what we cover:

1. What does it mean to manage perceptions and why do we do it?

2. The 7 ways we tend to manage perceptions

3. The 2 main problems with managing perceptions

4. Why we have to "retrain" people (& their expectations of us)

5. Examples of steps you can take to honor yourself & your relationships

6. How to create your own "Yes/No List" to help you make brave decisions

7. The courage it takes to say 'no' and how to honor the emotions that inevitably show up when you do

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Thanks to our sponsors:
  • Organifi -Go to www.organifi.com/bestofyou and use code BESTOFYOU for 20% off your order today!
  • Download Abide Sleep and Pray Meditation and text my promo code BESTOFYOU to 22433 today to get 25% off!  
  • Chosen-Check out Season 3 in theaters starting November 18th. For more information, visit TheChosenTickets.com.

Music by Andy Luiten/Sound editing by Kelly Kramarik

While Dr. Cook is a counselor, the content of this podcast and any of the products provided by Dr. Cook are not specific counseling advice nor are they a substitute for individual counseling. The content and products provided on this podcast are for informational purposes only.

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Resources

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Transcript

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Alison: Hey everyone, welcome back to this week's episode of the Best of You podcast. And we are starting a new series in honor of a new month, and also in honor of the holiday season. We're going into a busy end-of-the-year with November and December. With Thanksgiving and Christmas, and all the things that go with these two months. 

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Now, we just finished a series on Boundaries and the Bible, where we started on the inside. We started with this idea of making and keeping a promise to yourself. Learning to build trust with yourself. All the way through how to negotiate change in healthy relationships and how to say, "No" in toxic situations. Lots of scripts and tips, especially, in those last few episodes. 

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So in this series, we're going to focus on the seven ways we manage perceptions. Versus the healthy ways of forging authentic connections. And those authentic connections can be with other people, with God, and with ourselves. 

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I'm going to invite on some friends, in this series, as we walk through these seven different ways that we tend to manage perceptions. In the hopes that this will help you show up more authentically, show up in a truer way, going into this also busy, also consuming, holiday season. 

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So first, what do I mean by managing perceptions? Well, I talk about this in chapter seven of The Best of You. So if you want to go deeper, reread that chapter. But here's what I mean, in short, managing perceptions is all about managing how the people around you view you. 

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It's ultimately about protecting yourself, and there's no shame in it, we all do it. But if it's the only way we're showing up in a room full of other people. It leaves us feeling empty, disconnected, and not getting the very thing that we actually want.

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So managing perceptions is about getting other people to see you in a certain way. It's about trying to earn approval, earn love, earn validation, earn our way into a friendship, a group of people, a community. 

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It's all about image management. "If they see me a certain way, I'll be okay."

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"If they see me as good enough, I'll finally belong."

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"If they see me as someone desirable, they'll let me in." It's about gauging what other people want from you in order to earn their approval. And there are a lot of ways that we do this, for example, you might have learned to read facial cues, and you don't even realize it.

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But you walk into a room and you read the cues. If they nod, if they smile, you move in that direction. Or if someone says, "Oh, you look so cute today." You start dressing more in that way. There are all these tiny and big ways, that we work to read the cues other people are sending us. Because we want to fit in. Because we want to feel valued. Because we want to feel okay. Because we want to feel worthy. Because we want to belong. 

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So, again, there's no shame in these ways that we manage perceptions. But if it's the only way we're showing up in a room full of people with our families, with our friends, or even with our spouse or our kids, or a best friend, just one other person, we are missing out on being truly known. 

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Instead of feeling deeply connected to other people, and instead of belonging as the real person that we are. Managing perceptions, typically, leaves us feeling anxious. Constantly gauging ourselves, "Did I do it right?"

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"Did I say something stupid?"

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"Was it okay what I did there?"

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"How did I perform?"

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"How did I look in that situation?" So it can lead to a lot of anxiety. It can lead to a chronic sense of loneliness. It can lead to feeling like an outsider looking in. It can leave us feeling very far from our God-given selves. 

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Managing perceptions means, "I am working to earn your approval and to earn my place of belonging." On the other hand, authentic connection means, "I want to be known as I really am."

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So I want to say it, again, the goal isn't to shame ourselves. So many of us we're conditioned, in big and little ways, to read the room for our cues, and this starts really young. As a child, you learn, from your parents, what's okay and what's not okay. You learn from your peers at school, that if you show up and say something you might get made fun of. Or if you wear something you might get made fun of. 

Or if you play a certain sport, or a certain instrument, or if there's something you like to do in your free time that isn't cool, you might get made fun of. We come by these methods of coping naturally, there is no shame in this. 

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But we've got to begin to identify our go-to methods of trying to manage the perceptions of other people. So that we can learn how to show up more authentically and stay truer to who we really are. 

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So here's some examples; managing perceptions might be pretending like you really want to go to a bunch of holiday functions. Because you feel like you should and because other people are doing it, and because your friends will think it's weird if you don't. 

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And what you really want to do maybe is stay home and enjoy the silence, or enjoy your own decorations, your own Christmas tree, your own twinkle lights. Whatever it may be in silence, reflecting, quietly, on what this year has meant to you, or it could be the reverse. 

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Maybe it's denying your love of a fun festivity. And denying a longing that what you really want is to show up, and play, and be funny, and joke, and have a lot of fun. And feeling pressured into being very serious, and very deep, and very pensive.

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When for you, what you really want to do during this holiday season is to be joyful and have some fun. It can work both ways. It's all about noticing what's going on inside of you and the way that you are tempted to, again, manage the perceptions of the others around you. Versus staying true to what's really going on inside of you.

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Another example, it's spending more money than what you have, or what makes sense, or what really matters because you're trying to keep everybody else happy. Maybe you're trying to keep your kids happy. And, so, you're overextending your budget. You're trying to manage the way they perceive you versus taking the time to get curious about what your budget really is. What really matters to you, and how you can really show love in a thoughtful, kind, authentic way.

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So there are lots of ways we do this at the holidays. I'll share one, a personal example, I am not someone who is great at decorating. It's never been my thing. If you come into my home, you will see exactly what I mean. It's not the latest, greatest, trends. It's not the most up-to-date, perfectly-placed furniture, and wall decor. 

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It's reflective of the things I love and the people I love. It doesn't always come together in a beautifully cohesive template. It's home, to me, and I've learned to accept this part of me. And even at the holidays, it's a little wonky, I'll post some pictures when we get closer. I just try to have fun with it and I've let myself go, from that "Should" idea of what perfection looks like when one is decorating.

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Whether it's for the rest of the year or whether it's for the holidays. Before, when I was trying to manage perceptions, I might have been embarrassed to have someone over to see my scattered way of decorating for the holidays. I might have been embarrassed by that. I might have apologized for that. 

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But what I've learned is to claim that. "This is who I am. This is how I create beauty. For me, beauty looks a little different than it might look for a dear friend, who is gifted at making things look beautiful."

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And here is the beauty in that, the more I accept my own way of creating beauty in my home. The freer I am to enjoy and delight in going into a friend's home, who is a master creator, a master artist. Someone who's deeply gifted and derives great joy from making things beautiful.

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In maybe a more traditional way and maybe more of an instagrammable-worthy way, I end up delighting in that. I love going in and witnessing that beauty in someone else's home. And I love the freedom that I have to be in my own home and enjoy the ways that I create beauty, that doesn't always look like a postcard. And I also delight in the freedom that I have to use my talents in other ways. 

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There's a lot of freedom in letting go of managing perceptions. Of trying to fit in to a box that doesn't really fit right. If I spend a lot of time and attention doing something that, A, doesn't really fit a gift of mine. It's not something I enjoy; it doesn't bring life to me. 

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I'm trying to do it so that someone else will be impressed, that's a waste of my time. That's a waste of the talents that God has given me. It also leaves me feeling frustrated because I'm never going to measure up. I'm never going to be as good at doing this thing that's someone else's. So let's just relieve ourselves. Let's just take ourselves out of that box. 

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Let's each do what brings us joy, what brings goodness into our souls, and then let's celebrate each other. 

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So that's just one example of a way I've had to learn to put a pause. To set a healthy boundary with the part of me that wants to manage perceptions and make sure other people don't walk into my home and go, "Oh, golly, this house isn't very well decorated."

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And go, "This is who we are. These are the things that we value, come on in. You'll find warmth here, you'll find an oasis." And that frees me up to go into other people's homes and delight in what they're good at. 

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The more we make peace with showing up as our true selves. The less we're trying to manage how other people see us, and the more freedom we discover. Both to delight in how God made us to be and to delight in how God made other people. So what are the seven ways we tend to manage perceptions? We tend to try to get the approval, the love, the belonging that we crave with other people.

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We're going to take a deep dive into each one of these over the next few weeks. But, for now, I'm going to give you the list with the mantra that goes with each. And listen to this list and see if there's one, in particular, one or two in particular, that are familiar or resonate with you. 

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Number one, perfect. "If I appear perfect, no one can criticize me."

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Number two, please. "I please others to earn love."

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Number three, perform. "I make myself into what others want me to be."

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Number four, produce. "I'll produce so they think I have value."

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Number five, peace-keep. "I'll stay small, so no one can get angry with me."

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Number six, protect. "I keep my guard up, so no one can hurt me."

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And number seven, power over. "I dominate. I take control of the narrative."

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We all do this on some level. Some of us probably picked two or three from that list, maybe without even realizing it. But ask yourself, what is the way that you manage perceptions when you walk into a room full of people? 

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Do you tend to play small or blend in so no one can criticize you? Or do you work to make sure everyone around you feels affirmed, encouraged, cared for, served, or helped? Are you the workhorse who's making sure everything gets done? You don't necessarily look for the attention, but you do not want to let any one of those balls drop. 

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Or maybe you're the entertainer who's keeping everybody having fun. Maybe you're someone taking control. You figure if you can control everything you can make sure no one sees what's really going on. 

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There is nothing wrong with these qualities, I want to be clear. In fact, all of them have their place, but here's the problem. If you are only working to manage the perceptions of others, two things are going to happen. Number one, you'll lose connection with your core sense of self. 

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You might even find yourself doing activities, saying things, even in relationships, that you don't really want. And number two, you are likely neglecting your own tenderness, your own vulnerabilities. Parts of you that need you to show up for you, in a more authentic way. 

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Here's the thing, I want you to enjoy relationships, activities, holiday gatherings, all the things, with people who stick around when the real you shows up. I want you to learn to turn toward those people, those activities, those conversations that bring you life. That genuinely allows you to show up in both the best of who you are and when you're having a hard time.

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I want you to learn how to turn away from those relationships, from those people, from those activities that rob your joy. That force you to fit into boxes that no longer fit. I want you to find real joy in these next two months, as we close out this year. Where you learn to take brave steps, to honor the person God made you to be. 

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Now, it's a process, it's a journey. We've been talking a lot about it on this podcast. Real connections develop as you learn to listen to the cues inside of your own heart and body.

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Pay attention to your emotions, to your bandwidth, to your capacity. Learning to speak up for what you really need and want, honestly. And it also starts with getting curious about the ways you are tempted to manage perceptions. The ways you are tempted to perfect, to please, to perform, to produce, to peace-keep, to protect, to even power-over.

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It starts with that awareness of that part of you and setting a gentle boundary inside of you. And saying, "You know, I'm going to take a deep breath. I'm going to pause. I'm going to slow down when I walk into this room. I'm going to take a minute to really connect to myself and to God. So I can show up in one simple, small way that is true to myself."

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Now, listen, I understand that it can be scary to show up more authentically. I want to encourage you to take a few brave steps, over this holiday season in particular. Don't go for your hardest thing, unless you feel called and unless you feel ready. But a few brave steps to show up a little bit more authentically. 

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Because here's the thing, we train people to expect certain behaviors from us. If we've always shown up as that producer, that performer, that pleaser, that perfect host. Other people have come to expect that from us. It's not really their fault. It's how we've trained other people that will show up.

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And, so, when we start to change that, it can throw other people off. They might not like it. They might even ask you about it, and that's okay. If the relationship is strong, if the relationship is healthy, you can speak up on behalf and say, "Hey, I'm doing things a little bit differently this year."

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You can use some of those scripts we talked about in the series on boundaries. To say, "Hey, man, I love spending time with you but I'm doing things differently this year. I'm going to show up in a different way." 

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As you stop managing perceptions and showing up more authentically, you might discover that someone else will love that quirky aspect of you, or someone will be thrilled to get to know your preferences. That someone will actually be empowered, through your modeling of a healthy boundary. That someone will see you and love you for the person you really are.

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When you show up more authentically, you open yourself up to wonderful possibilities when it comes to your relationships, when it comes to your activities. Instead of trying to win the approval of everyone around you, you'll start to draw in the people, the activities, the actual nourishment that your soul craves. 

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Instead of managing the perceptions of everyone around you. You open yourself up to being known more authentically, and you're also more available to show up in a healing, empowering way for others. 

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All right, so here's just a quick example of some of the things I'm doing this holiday season. To help my own inner pleaser, producer, and performer, to show up more authentically over this coming holiday season. 

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I am spoiler alert, I haven't announced this yet on my socials. I'm going to be taking a six week break from social media for much of November and all of December. This is something I decided I need to do over the holidays. 

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I want to be able to be fully present this holiday season to God, to my family, to my friends, to myself. I'm discerning a lot about how I want to spend the new year. How I want to spend my time, and some writing projects that I have coming in 2023. Which means I need to scale back and that's one way I can do it. 

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There are things I love about social media, and things that really can just pull me down a rabbit trail of distractions. So I want to take this time to prioritize being present in those ways. I've said a lot of nos to really good things, and that's been hard for me. I've said no to some events. I've said no to some gatherings because I want to have margin over the holidays. 

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I don't want to be running around scattered, just bouncing like a pinball in a machine, from thing to thing. That's not what is nourishing to me. I want to have time in the day to think about, "Oh, what do I want to be doing for this hour?" Versus, "How do I just need to be feeling this time?"

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So I've said some proactive nos that were hard to say, but that were important for me to stay healthy of body, of mind, of spirit, and of emotion. So I'm inviting you now, this first week of November, to take out your calendar and take a look at the next two months, and here's a strategy I want to share with you. I've just gone through this exercise myself. It came out of that whole boundary series we did the last couple of months. But I created a NO list, a MAYBE list, and a YES list. And I just did this in the notes app on my phone.

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I have a NO list, a YES list, and a MAYBE list. And I started with the YES list. What do I absolutely need and want to say yes to over the next two months? And I tried to keep it really small. These are the absolutely YES, I am going to say YES to these few things, and get them on that list. And then if you're not sure, if you're not 100% sure, put some things on that MAYBE list.

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Maybe, "I can't say no yet, but it's also not just 100% yes. So your MAYBE list might be long. And then start to put some things on that NO list. What are you going to say NO to? 

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Now start with the easiest things. The "Man, I'm definitely saying no to x, y, and z. I am saying no to this. I'm saying no to that. I'm saying no to this." Just get clear about the easy nos first. But there's going to be some hard nos. And when you get to those hard nos, they're going to go on that MAYBE list. This all goes back into that MAYBE pile.

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The things want to say yes to but you're not sure you have the bandwidth for, and the things you want to say no to but it's going to be hard. All of those things go on that MAYBE list. And you divide that MAYBE list into two sections. One section that is the, "I wish I could say yes, I'm not sure I can." And the second section is, "I really want to say no, but it's going to be hard."

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So, really, you have three lists, but that MAYBE list has two sections. And I really want you to spend some time with that maybe list. And I want you to pray over it, and I want you to talk to God about it. And if you've taken me up on that idea, to start forming a boundaries committee, you might have called it your no committee. It's that safe friend that helps you with those nos that are really hard to say. Take that maybe list to that person and talk it through with them. 

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But I want you to be proactive with that maybe list. I want you to challenge yourself. Why are you afraid to say those nos? Is it because you feel a sense of responsibility of calling? Or is it because you're afraid of not managing those perceptions? You're afraid of what they'll think if you say no? That there's some message you've told yourself, that you need to do this thing in order to get their approval.

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I really want you to take a look at those things that are hard to say no to, and just examine a little bit prayerfully, and with that safe friend, and inside your own soul. The reason why it's hard to say no and see if you can bump some of those onto that NO list, and go ahead and take action. And, again, if you need some scripts, check out chapter six and chapter nine of The Best of You. Or go back to episodes 25 and 26 of the podcast, where we get into different ways of saying no.

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But I really want to encourage you to move some of those maybes, proactively, onto that no list before the holiday season heats up and it's going to get only harder. It might be things like what you do for the holidays. Where you spend the holidays? How you spend the days after the holidays? How you spend the days leading up to the holidays? 

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It might have to do with the gifts that you are going to give. It might have to do with the cooking that you're going to do. It might have to do with conversations you're going to have or not have. It might have to do with events you've been invited to.

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So take a look at that, and then take a look at the second part of that Maybe list, that are the yeses you really wish you could say, but you might not be able to. And I want you to ask yourself a couple of questions related to those things.

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Is there a no you need to say that's going to be sad? And can you honor the fact that it's going to be sad? Can you allow yourself a little bit of grief about converting that, "I wish I could but I can't" into a no?

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A lot of times we avoid saying a NO that we need to say because it makes us sad. Because we really wish we could. And, so, just notice if that's going on for you. And then, secondly, there may be a yes, you really wish you could say that you can't, because of really legitimate and hard circumstances. It might be a health issue, either yours or a family member's. It might be a financial issue that's really hard. It might be a mental health issue that's hard to talk about. That you're struggling and you need to be really careful with your time.

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And, sometimes, it's just really hard because it brings up frustration. It might even bring up anger about this set of circumstances. You might find that you come face to face with frustration with God. Like, "This isn't fair. I want to be able to do this thing and I can't because of this set of circumstances." Or "These other people are going to be mad at me, and I can't tell them why I don't have the bandwidth right now. And that's just a bummer, man, that just stinks, I hate it."

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And, so, you may have to give yourself permission, again, to grieve. You might have to give yourself permission to lament. You might have to give yourself permission to be a little bit angry even, and God can take it. God can take that anger. And I want to tell you, I'm so sorry, if you're finding yourself in that set of circumstances. Where there are some really good things you want to say yes to and you can't, and it's hard, and I'm with you in that this holiday season.

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I hear you and I want to honor that with you. I want to honor that pain with you. And I'm inviting God right here right now to say God sees that pain too and it's hard, and God doesn't minimize that. God doesn't bypass that. And God also honors the courage that you're showing to say a hard NO, to honor this hard thing that you're going through. 

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It's hard, especially, at the holidays, to be brave. To honor, sometimes, even the hard things that we have to honor, that are going on in our lives. That means we have a reduced capacity, and it makes us mad. And it might make you sad, and I just want you to know I see you and I hear you, and I'm right there with you this holiday season.

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So make those lists and give yourself permission to honor whatever emotion shows up. Especially in that middle category, where it's a big MAYBE. Where you're probably feeling stuck and you can't make that decision because it's hard and it brings up some emotion. 

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Be gentle with yourself. You're not going to get it exactly right. And that's the last thing I want to give you today, is you're going to make some mistakes, and you're going to muddle your way through a little bit. It's going to be messy. You're going to do some things you wish you didn't. You're going to overextend yourself in certain ways, and you might even say some nos that you later regret. This is not perfect. This is not a zero-sum game, as they say. It's not about getting it right. It's about giving yourself permission to show up a little more honestly, with a little more integrity, a little more authentically. 

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Because as you do that, here's the paradox, there's freedom in giving yourself permission, to make some mistakes on this journey of becoming more true to your God-given self. 

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All right, so make those lists. Be brave, and I can't wait to join you here next week with some friends of mine. With some different guests, who are going to talk us through how they've learned to be brave in their lives, in so many of these ways.

EP –
26
Boundaries
How to Say "No" to Toxicity

This week on The Best of You Podcast, we're getting into how to say No to toxic behaviors-including practical strategies, scripts, and misconstrued bible passages. There's no one-size fits all when it comes to setting healthy boundaries. A strategy that might work in a healthy relationship won't work with toxicity. It's important to understand the difference.

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This is a packed episode. Here's what we discuss:

1. Why toxic behaviors require an entirely different type of "no"

2. An overview of toxic behaviors  

3. Extreme toxicity and when to cut off a relationship all together

4. 5 steps to implement a boundary with toxic behavior

5. 3 scripts for 3 different situations

6. What about turning the other cheek?

7. How to form a boundaries committee

Get a print, ebook, or audio copy of The Best of You anywhere books are sold.

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Thanks to our sponsors:

Music by Andy Luiten/Sound editing by Kelly Kramarik

While Dr. Cook is a counselor, the content of this podcast and any of the products provided by Dr. Cook are not specific counseling advice nor are they a substitute for individual counseling. The content and products provided on this podcast are for informational purposes only.

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Resources

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Transcript

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Alison: Hey everyone, welcome back to The Best of You podcast. So we are, today, going to get into part two of types of NO everyone needs to learn to say. This is the last episode in this series of Boundaries and the Bible. And last week we got into how to say NO in healthy relationships. And this week we're going to get into how to say NO when there's toxicity. 

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It requires a whole different set of skills, set of strategies, and I'm going to walk you through two different ways to say no. When you're dealing with people who are behaving in manners consistent with that toxic side of the spectrum. 

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We talked about the spectrum of toxicity, back in episode 24, so if you want a refresher of what that spectrum is and what those different behaviors look like, head back to episode 24. You can also check out chapter six in my new book The Best of You, where I explain that spectrum.

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So just to recap, last week we talked about how to say no in healthy relationships. And the key thing to understand is that when someone is, primarily, operating out of healthy behaviors on that healthy side of the spectrum, communication is possible. 

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You can go to that person and tell them what you need. What you're feeling, what's not working for you, what you want to see in that person. They may not be able to give you everything you want, but they'll be able to meet you there, and you'll be able to have a conversation. 

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Especially if you go into that conversation well, with the strategies that I taught you in last week's episode, episode number 25. You're going to be able to have a conversation. 

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Now, these conversations are hard, they require courage, but when people are healthy, they become really beautiful. You begin to negotiate a way forward that works for both of you. So in those healthy relationships, the goal of communication is to connect. It's to increase understanding. It's to arrive at a solution that works for both people. You can negotiate the boundary lines in healthy relationships. You can engage dialogue; you can work together.

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However, what about when someone has exhibited a consistent pattern of toxic behaviors? How do you go into a conversation with someone like that? Where their behaviors show you that they're operating more on that toxic side of the spectrum. That's what we're going to get into today. 

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We're going to get into how to say no with actions, primarily, and how to say no by using this method I call turning the other cheek. Which many people have misconstrued to encourage you to continue to play a doormat, that's not what it means.

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We're going to get into that in this episode. It's a packed episode, and we're going to end, or I'm going to teach you how to develop your own boundaries committee. Which is one of my favorite strategies for when you're dealing with someone in your life that is extremely hard to love. That is extremely hard to have a relationship with, but you're stuck in a relationship with them for whatever reason. 

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So let's get started with the second type of NO. The first type of NO, again, last week's episode, How to Say No in Healthy Relationships. Number two, how to say NO with actions. When you have to deal with toxic or even abusive people that are more on the left side of that spectrum, the most effective way to say no is with actions. Your actions are going to speak loudest.

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With folks like this, the truth is, you've, probably, already tried to have a conversation, to communicate on behalf of your needs. To let them know how you need to see a change. You've probably tried to use words and it hasn't worked, that channel is closed. 

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And, so, I want to be clear, if you could have a constructive conversation with someone about your needs, about the changes you need to make, about the ways in which you need to shift things in the relationship. If you could have that conversation in a constructive way, then the relationship wouldn't be toxic. It wouldn't be on that toxic side of the spectrum. 

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The hallmark of a healthy relationship is the ability to communicate. It's the ability to be heard, and understood, and seen by that other person. It's the ability to be respected by your friend, by your loved one, and it's you being willing to respect and honor them. 

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But if that's not happening. If you're going to this person, whether it's a parent, a spouse, a friend, an adult child. Whomever it may be, and instead of being met with respect, with curiosity, with an attempt to understand, you're being met with a guilt-trip. 

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You're being met with gaslighting, which means they're spinning your words and using them against you. You're being met with narcissistic tendencies, which means they're not even hearing you. They're just blatantly disregarding you. 

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They're telling you, "There's something wrong with you." That you are hurting them with your very genuine request of them. They're spinning that and making it about them. You're being met with manipulation or instead of really hearing you, they're taking your words and manipulating them to get you to do what they want you to do, what's in their best interest.

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Maybe you're being met with criticism. Where they're shaming you or criticizing you for stating a legitimate need. This happens and these are toxic behaviors. Maybe you're being met with blame-shifting where you're stating a genuine need and someone is shifting the blame. They're saying, "It's your fault that that's not happening, it's not my fault." You're being met with defensiveness, is another one.

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These are all things that you can be met with, that makes it unsafe for you to try to have a healthy conversation. This other person is using toxic behaviors, toxic strategies, to shut you down. They won't meet you with authenticity, they won't meet you with openness. They won't meet you to say, "Hey, help me understand. This is hard for me to hear, but I want to understand you. I want to understand what you need." 

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They're not taking you at face value. They're not giving you the benefit of the doubt. They're using any one of those strategies I just mentioned, that are toxic and, so, you have to use a different strategy. You're going to have to say, "No" with your actions. 

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Now, at the end of last week's episode, I mentioned that I think the hardest category of NO is with folks who are a bit of a combination. Who are showing some of these toxic strategies, that I just mentioned, and where there's also some good. Maybe it's a parent who is very self-centered, who guilt trips you, and they're also really great with your kids.

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Maybe it's a spouse who has some defensiveness who doesn't really hear you, who's a little bit self-centered, and they're also a really good provider and they're not cruel to you. This is that hard category, where there are folks who are in this gray area. They have some good qualities, but there's also some really challenging qualities, and that's where you've got to use some more sophisticated skills. 

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Now, I want to say a note, there are some folks who I would put on the extreme side of that spectrum of toxicity, where there's very little good left. And these are the folks we touched on in the episode, The Spectrum of Toxicity, where I even touch on evil. 

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Where folks have made so many decisions down the wrong path, that unfortunately they are really living out of the worst of who they are. Their choices that they've made time and time again, make it almost impossible to engage with them. 

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And, as a result, they're going to demonstrate toxic behaviors so consistently as to cause great harm. And these are folks from whom you may have to cut off ties all together. You may just have to completely extract yourself from that relationship, and there's a time and a place to do that. I would not do that alone. I would get the help of a trained counselor, a very good group of friends to help you extract from that relationship altogether. 

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So, primarily, again, we're focusing on that toxic side of the spectrum. Where there are folks where there might be some good. You may not see it, you may not want to cut the relationship off, altogether, but you've got to communicate some NOS. And, again, as you move toward this side, actions work best. 

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Here are some steps to guide you when you're going to say this NO, on this chronic to toxic side of the spectrum. Number one, prepare in advance. Get very clear about what you're going to communicate. Fewer words are clearer. Fewer words give them less ammunition to use against you. 

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So why are fewer words clear? Well, the more words you give, the more reasons you give, the more excuses you give to the other person. For why you're doing what you're doing, the more ammunition you're giving them to dispute you, to manipulate you, to twist your words, to argue against you. 

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And if you want to learn more about this, Adam Grant, he's a psychologist out of Wharton, has written a great book called Think Again. Where he talks about the art of communication in really well-researched ways. 

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But one of the things that he talks about is people who are really successful at persuading other people use fewer arguments, fewer reasons, not more, so prepare. Don't go in to argue. Don't go in with a whole lot of reasons; why you can't do this thing. You're just going to set yourself up for that person to shoot down all of your arguments. 

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You simply want to communicate very clearly, very simply, the action that you're going to take. Remember, the goal, when you're dealing with people on this side of the spectrum, is not a conversation, it's an outcome. That's a very clear difference. 

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You're communicating an outcome you've pre-decided. Because you've already recognized this person can't meet you halfway. So you've made a decision and you're there to communicate it, so less is more. Prepare ahead of time and get very clear on what you're going to say, and I'll walk you through some scripts here in a minute. 

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Step number two relates to what we talked about, again last week, affirm the good. Because presumably you are going to stay in this relationship on some level, but with some very clear boundaries. So you do want to state why you are staying in this relationship. It might be as simple as, "You're my mom, you're my dad, and I care about you."

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Maybe you have very little, meaningful relationship with this person, but for whatever reason you're not going to cut them out. So even if you don't state it, you need to know, "Why am I staying in this? What is the reason?"

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If it's a co-parent, "You're the father, you're the mother of our children, we've got to make this work." That's it. That's why I'm staying in this and that's it. Now, again, some people, some situations, you might have an ex where you've had to cut off communication altogether. Because their behavior is so toxic and your boundary with them is nothing. You do not talk, you do not communicate, that's a different category. 

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But, again, in this gray area where you are still in some, sort of, communication. You have to understand, what is the reason? What is the good? What is the common ground that is keeping you in it? 

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Number three, you're going to tell the truth without making up excuses and without apologizing. You want to stay clear without apologizing. You're going to anchor yourself in the truth of what you've arrived at before God. 

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You're going to express the conviction, the clarity that you've arrived at with this decision, without apologizing, without making up an excuse. Because when you do that, you put yourself on the defense and you don't want to put yourself on the defense. This is a strong, clear statement of your boundary. 

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For example, you might say something like, "This is hard, but I've arrived at this conclusion." Or you might say something like, "I get that this might be hard for you, but this is what I've decided." So you can validate that this is hard for them. But "This is what I've decided," and you're clear about it, you're not apologizing for it.

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Number four, forget about those "I-statements" we talked about in last week's episode, episode 25. "I-statements' won't work with people who are on the toxic side of the spectrum. They don't really care about how you feel or about why you need to have this conversation. 

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Instead, what you can do is tell them what you can say YES to in the relationship, and I'm going to clarify what I mean by that in the scripts. But you can clarify the way you will stay in relationship with this person. 

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Because, number five, you're then going to state the very clear boundary line, the very clear NO. You're not going to propose an alternative. You're not going to use "I-statements". Those work with people on the healthy side of the spectrum. 

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When you're dealing with people who have toxic patterns of behavior, you are very clear, you're direct, you are telling, you are saying, you are using words, only in so far as to explain the actions you will be taking. This is not an open-ended conversation. You're not asking for permission, you're not inviting feedback, you're saying you're stating, you're clarifying the actions you will be taking. 

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So, again, number one, prepare; fewer words are clearer. Affirm the good, when possible, the reason you are staying in this relationship for whatever reason. Tell the truth. Don't make up excuses, don't apologize. Name what you can say "Yes" to, if at all possible, and then number five, state the very clear boundary line. 

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Now, you want to do all this work first, that's what I mean by prepare. It's best if you work through all of these steps first in the privacy of your own heart. Pray through it with God, talk about it with a wise friend or counselor, and then you're going to go in and very simply state what's going to happen. But most, importantly, you're going to back it up with actions. 

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Here are some examples; you've got a critical or self-centered parent, but they're good with your kids. So you're not cutting off the relationship, altogether, but you're setting some very clear boundaries. 

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Here's an example of a script; "I want you to enjoy the kids, but I am not going to listen to your criticism of my parenting anymore. If you bring up my parenting again, I will hang up the phone or leave the room. I'm happy to give you updates about what the kids are learning at school, about news, about our family, but that's where the conversation ends."

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So that's a tough script. That's a tough thing to say. But listen to what you're doing, you are saying yes to the relationship. You are saying, "I want you to enjoy the kids. You're a good grandparent, you're a good in-law, I'm grateful for that." 

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But you are clearly defining its limits and you're letting them know, "If you violate this boundary, if you start criticizing me, I'll leave the room, it's over. I'll let you know how the kids are doing, but I'm out."

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You haven't made an excuse, you haven't apologized, you've stated very clearly, "This is what's going to happen." And then you have to back up what you've said. You have to back up what you've said with actions. Don't keep saying it. You're not there to convince them. You're not trying to get them to understand. You're not trying to get them to agree. 

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If they start to criticize you, you'll need to leave the room, excuse yourself from the phone, or stop spending time alone with the person. You can use the Buddy System, you can bring someone else in, you can minimize your one-on-one time with them. 

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But with your actions you have to show that you mean it. This behavior will no longer be tolerated, if they want to spend time with your kids. So that's an example with a parent that has some toxic ways of criticizing you, of belittling you, of demeaning you. 

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You're saying "No" to that behavior, and you're saying, "Yes, you can spend time with my kids. You're good with the kids, but this is where this stops. This is where this ends and this is what I'll do."

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Now, when you write out this script, you may decide you're going to say it verbatim and read it. You're going to maybe email it. 

Maybe you're just going to know it so deeply, within yourself and it's so clear to you, that you're just going to start doing it. There's a lot of different ways you can carry this out, but I want you to have that script ready to go, very clearly defined.

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All right, example two, here's a script you can use with someone who manipulates you. Manipulation is a really insidious thing. It can come across as guilt tripping. This other person might, kind of, it sounds good. It's often couched in spiritual language. There's the overt guilt tripping of, "Oh, if you really loved me, you would do this thing for me."

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Or, "You'd stop by more often."

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Or, "If you really cared about my needs, you wouldn't keep spending time with that other person that I'm jealous of."

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Or, "God wouldn't want you to treat me this way. God wants there to be peace. God wants you to forgive me, right." That's manipulation, but that's, also, really overt. 

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When someone's coming at you that overtly, we can all miss this, especially, if this is the soup you've been cooked in over time. This is the way you've been manipulated your whole life. You can get sucked into this, but that's really overt manipulation, and you've got to set a clear boundary with that. 

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Oftentimes, it's much more subtle. It might even show up as this sort of quasi vulnerability at first. Your friend, or your parent, or even your adult child, or even your spouse, or your ex, might say things like, "I feel so jealous that you have those friends." 

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But they're not coming to you in a way that wants to genuinely invite you into conversation, which would be the healthy side of the spectrum. They're sharing that in a way to try to hook you, to try to get you to do what they want you to do. 

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So you feel bad, you feel guilty, maybe you stop bringing up that area of your life, or you might even stop spending time with that other person. So they've sucked you in to doing what they want you to do. 

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Maybe they say things like, "I hate it when you're away from me." Instead of saying, "Man, I feel so sad when we don't get to spend time together, and yet I love that you want to do x, y, z. Can we talk about; can we negotiate what those boundary lines might look like in a healthy way?"

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Instead, there's sort of a tone of guilt tripping. "Well, I know you're so busy. Oh, I know, it makes me so sad when I don't get to see you. I know you don't really have time for me though." They hook you and you feel bad. And, so, you feel guilted into doing things that maybe you are not called to do. So this is what I mean by a little bit of toxicity.

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They're using a strategy to hook you, and it's very different than someone coming to you, very transparently, and saying, "Hey, this is hard for me, can we have a conversation? 

I want to honor you, and I want to figure out if there's a way we can work this out together." That's really different. Manipulation, guilt-tripping, it's not relying on logic, it's not relying on objectivity. It's not saying like, "Hey, there's this weird thing that we've got to work through together." 

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It's trying to tug at where you are probably already a little vulnerable, where you're, probably, already, potentially, a little wounded at where you're already an overly empathetic person. You're already conditioned to be overly thoughtful, overly kind of others, and that person knows that, and they're hooking you. They're hooking you in and trying to use that for their advantage. 

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So manipulation, I'm calling this manipulation but there's a lot of manifestations of it, is really insidious. It's really easy to get hooked, especially, if you're kind, especially, if you're someone who wants to be a good person. 

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Before you go into the action item, you've got to do the work first, and, again, that's why we built up to that internal work. Remember, you've got to take a U-turn and ask yourself, first, "Is what I need wrong?"

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"Is what I'm asking for wrong?"

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"Am I being selfish, by stating a limit, by stating a need, by stating a boundary?" You've really got to do that work with God, yourself, and a few safe people first. And at the end of this episode, I'm going to teach you how to form your own boundaries committee to help you. Because you're going to need it when you're dealing with someone who uses these strategies.

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< Music >

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So here's a script after you've done that work and after you've prepared yourself. Because they're going to come at you with some of those manipulative, guilt-tripping strategies, here's a script you can use. 

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"I care about you and I appreciate our shared history. I'm doing some work on myself and I'm going to need to shift some things in this relationship. I'm not going to have these conversations with you anymore. I'm happy to continue to talk with you about X, Y, Z." Safe topics and you'll have to do the work and figure out what that is.

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Maybe you'll continue to talk with them about the kids. Maybe you'll continue to talk with them about the weather. Maybe you'll continue to talk with them about whatever one safe topic is, but everything else is off limits. 

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Now, again, you may need to decide this within yourself first. You may not even communicate this. You may just, immediately, move to action, but you've got to know where you're limiting the boundaries of that conversation. 

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So here's some action steps; you may stop engaging any attempts to talk about your relationship, that's a way people can hook you. "But can't we talk about how to be closer?" 

You're not going to have that conversation. You're not going to go there with this person. You are going to limit communication to safe topics. You may decide to send them an email, once a month, with a news update. One-way communication, you're controlling the safe topics. You may decide to only talk about the project you're working on. 

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But at any point, at which this person tries to bring the conversation to something they're feeling about you, you cut it off. You excuse yourself, you get out of the conversation. You may have to stop responding to texts. You may need to limit one on one phone calls. You may need to only be in conversation with this person, with other people. 

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So that means using the Buddy System. If you bump into this person, in other areas of life, you can be very polite, you can be very civil. You can say, "Hey, it's good to see you, I hope you're well." Very casual attempts to be kind, but you do not engage in any attempts, on their part, to suck you into a conversation about your relationship. 

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We have conversations about our relationship with people who are healthy. We negotiate the boundaries of a relationship with people who are healthy. With people who are guilt-tripping, with people who are manipulating, we can't have those conversations anymore. 

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They're not trying to come at that conversation in a healthy way. And, so, we have to move to one-way communication, where we can say, "Hey, I'm going to stop by, and bring you a cup of coffee, and give you a big hug, and then I'm out."

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Maybe that's something you do with a parent or an in-law. You show up, you do one thing, and then you're out. You don't let that conversation get deep. Or, "Maybe we talk about the television shows we both enjoy." And that's where the conversation ends. 

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Or, "Maybe we talk about the books that we both like to read." And that's where the conversation ends. So this is nuanced, there's one thing or two things that can stay safe, that you can talk about, but everything else you're taking off the table. 

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And, again, going back to that script, "I care about you and I appreciate our shared history, but I need to work on myself, for a while, and therefore I'm no longer going to have these conversations with you. Here's what I'd love to connect on."

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Now, with this person, depending on the level of safety, you may never say that to them because even that they might twist. But you know, it's clear to you, "This is what's off limits. This is what I can do."

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Number three, let's say you've got a spouse, a friend, a parent, or an adult child who's engaging in toxic activity. Maybe they're abusing substances. Maybe they're involved in some toxic ways of relating that we've already discussed and you've got to say to them, something to the effect of, here's the script, "I care about you and I am committed to a healthy relationship. 

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But I will not be around you when this behavior is occurring. The next time you show up drunk, the next time you start to download on me in a toxic way.

The next time you come after me with anger. The next time you behave in this way with my kids, with my spouse, with other people I love. The next time you try to triangulate me." 

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Which means they try to bring you in to their drama, so you name the behavior, "I'm going to leave. I'm going to excuse myself. I will get off the phone. I will excuse myself from the table. I will leave our conversation. I will not tolerate that behavior. If you can't honor that boundary, I will take even more dramatic steps to remove myself. I want health and I want to be healthy with you, but I will not tolerate that behavior."

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Now, if they can honor that, great. But if they can't honor that boundary that you've stated, you've got to be ready to back up those words with actions. You do not keep trying to convince them. You do not keep trying to get them to understand. You give them, maybe, two strikes then they're out.

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Maybe you give them one more reminder, "Hey, you just did it. You just went off on me and it's not okay, so, now, I'm excusing myself." Or, "I can tell you've been using, I'm out. I'm not talking to you when you've been using, I'll excuse myself."

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Or, "Hey, you just brought up that topic of conversation I said was off limits, I'm out." Now, this is hard to do and I get it. Again, here are the action steps you can take in any of these scenarios. When that clear boundary that you've stated has been crossed. Leave the room when the toxic behavior happens, or when the toxic topics show up, excuse yourself. Don't apologize, "I've got to go."

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"I'm getting off the phone now."

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"I'm leaving the room."

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They know you've told them why. Another strategy, use the Buddy System, stop spending time alone with that person to mitigate that potential for that behavior to happen. Stop responding to a text or to a call when they're in that place.

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Stop engaging in any attempts to discuss that behavior. Leave the house if you have to. Just excuse yourself from the table, if you're at a restaurant. If you're married to this person and they show up high, or they show up drunk, or they show up with all this toxicity, and time and time again, you might have to move out. 

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And if it gets really bad, and if it gets abusive, and if they start escalating, which sometimes toxic people will do, if they're really on that toxic side of the spectrum, you may have to call the police. Especially if you're concerned about anybody's safety, including your own. 

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Now, remember, if this person protests you don't owe them an explanation. You don't owe them a drawn out conversation. You've tried that, I have no doubt, this is the end of it. You are not saying anything mean or anything cruel. You're actually empowering them to get the help they need to change. It's okay to say nothing after you've said no, after you've excused yourself, after you've gotten yourself out of a toxic conversation. 

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Setting this boundary doesn't mean you don't care about the other person, it simply means you've started caring more about you. You are not trying to hurt them. This is not punitive, this is not retaliatory, you are simply doing what you need to do to take care of yourself before God. 

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A final strategy for saying no is what I call or the Bible calls, "Turning the other cheek." Many of you have been taught that turning the other cheek is a way to put up with bad behavior. You might have been taught that turning the other cheek means to look the other way, as if nothing terrible has happened, or to offer yourself up for more pain. That's not what this phrase means. 

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Here's what Jesus actually said, "You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth.' But I tell you do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek turn to them the other cheek also." That's from Matthew 5:38-48. 

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So, for many of you, that verse has been used to suggest that you put up with mistreatment. The idea is that if you turn the other cheek, you will somehow love the offending party into seeing the error of their ways. I lived that way for years, it doesn't work. 

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That interpretation of what Jesus is saying isn't accurate and it doesn't work, especially, with people who are on the toxic side of the spectrum. Imagine if you have been told to turn the other cheek when your spouse is abusing you, your boss is harassing you, your friend is manipulating you, your child is being bullied, repeatedly, at school. Just take it. Just be the bigger person. Your love can change them, and it's just not the way people tend to work. 

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In fact, usually, the other person will just continue to take advantage of you or your loved one. It's foolish to pretend otherwise and we know that Jesus was no fool. And we also know, from so many other places in the Bible, that were cautioned to step away from people who are mocking, who are bullying, who are arrogant, who are exploiting you, or who are exploiting other people, that's what Jesus did. Jesus spoke out harshly to abusers and bullies. 

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So we know there's something going on here with what Jesus said about turning the other cheek, that isn't quite right in how many of us have been told to do it. So I talk about this in chapter six of The Best of You. But I love how theologian N.T. Wright talks about this passage in its historical context. And what he says is this, and this blew my mind and it's going to blow yours. 

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He said, "To turn the other cheek in that historical context was a subtle but powerful demonstration of strength." In his book, Matthew for Everyone he explained, "That a strike to the right cheek, in that time, was an insult. It was a tactic used to belittle someone who was perceived to be an inferior."

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So the Roman soldiers might smack someone they perceived to be inferior on the right cheek. So what recourse is available to that person in that power differential. Someone has power over them, and they're exploiting that power, they're flexing by smacking them on the right cheek. 

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According to Wright and I quote him here, "Hitting back would only keep the evil in circulation. Offering the other cheek implies, 'Hit me again if you like but now as an equal, not an inferior.'" And you imagine that in your mind.

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Where someone's got power over someone else and they smack them, and that person just, it hurts, it stings, and then they turn that other cheek right back toward them saying, "Go ahead, hit me again. Because guess what? You can hurt me a little bit in this moment but you will not take my dignity. You will not take my dignity."

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Now, I want to be clear, if you're in an abusive situation and someone's actually hurting you, I don't mean this, literally, don't let them keep hitting you. There's a metaphor here for us in this example. 

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Seen in this light, turning the other cheek, is a brave counter move. It's not being a doormat, it's the opposite. It's a way of standing your ground and, with actions, communicating, "You will not belittle me. You will not take my dignity." It's countering bullying from a position of strength. 

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So imagine if someone's berating you. If someone's coming after you and you're standing your ground, and you're not arguing, and you're not growing defensive. And you're just looking at them square in the eye while they're making a fool of themselves. Berating you, coming after you, saying all these terrible things. 

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They're completely just losing their mind and you're just not taking the bait, and you're standing firm. And maybe at the end of it all, you look them in the eye and you say, "Is there any more where that came from? Do you have more to say to me? Okay, I'm out."

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You don't need to honor their temper tantrum, honor their diatribe, honor their foolishness with the dignity of an actual response, you just stand your ground. Maybe you say nothing, and you're showing them with your actions, their own foolishness. 

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By not taking the bait, by not getting sucked in, you're standing firm in your power. You're so connected to who you are. You're so anchored in your own conviction that you almost put the shame back on them.

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It's almost like you imagine yourself with this shield, this beautiful shield all around you, and all their words are coming at you, and they're bouncing off that shield, and guess where they go? They turn right back on them. There's a way, and in your strength, in your quiet confidence, in standing in your conviction and not getting sucked in that, that shame goes back on them, and then you simply walk away. 

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Turning the other cheek does not mean, "Just keep hurting me, I'll keep taking it." It's a way of standing firm, and strong, and rooted, and confident in the face of mistreatment from a place of inner conviction. And it puts the shame back where it belongs on that other person because this is all about their shame. 

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This is all about their stuff. They need to work through this. This is not about you and, so, you refusing to engage that is a powerful counter move. And it is hard, and you don't want to do this alone, and you have to be deeply rooted in a strong sense of self. 

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You're going to need people to come alongside of you, especially, if you're dealing with real evil, with real toxicity. But this is an extremely shrewd, wise, powerful way to quote-unquote, "Turn the other cheek." 

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You are not giving over your strength. You're saying, "You can't hurt me. I am here to stay and you can slap me again if you want to, but I'm not going anywhere, you cannot take my dignity." When Jesus said to turn the other cheek, He was not advocating for spinelessness nor was He advocating for you to let the offending party off the hook. Instead, He demonstrated, time and again with his actions, a profound way to take a stand. 

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Anchor yourself in the truth of who you are and the truth of who God is. Stand firm in your conviction, and again, stand firm. And we see this underscored in so many other parts of Scripture. In Ephesians 6:11, where it says "Put on the full armor of God so that you will be able to stand firm." There's this standing firm thing.

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1 Peter 5:9 talking about the evil, the evil one who might come at us through these toxic strategies other people are using, but "Resist standing firm in your faith."

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1 Corinthians 15:58, "Be steadfast, immovable."

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1 Corinthians 16:13, "Stand firm in your faith, be strong." There's this idea of standing strong, standing firm, there's an action in that strength. That it isn't a lot about words, it's not about all the persuasive arguments, it's not getting them to understand. It's letting your strength speak loudest and it's incredibly effective against toxic behaviors. 

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So we're going to close, today, with this idea of forming a boundaries committee. It's one of my favorite strategies, we talk about it in Boundaries for Your Soul in the chapter on Shame. We talked about the importance of developing a committee of people to help you stand strong. To help you know the truth of who you are, the truth of who God is, and how to say "No" with your words, sometimes, and with this powerful way of standing strong. 

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You need a couple of people in your life to help you do this, some wise people to come alongside of you. Now, a couple of ways to do that, just right now as you're listening, who are a couple of people who get this?

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Who will help you stand strong, who understand this incredibly challenging relationship you have with a parent, with a spouse, with an adult child, with a friend, with a co-parent, with an ex? Who's someone who understands that? And instead of just venting to that person, go to that person and say, "I need you to help me stand strong, I need you to be on my boundaries committee because this is an ongoing thing. I have to continually work at this because I can't cut this person out altogether. 

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And, so, I'm going to continually have to build this muscle and I need you to help me." And maybe you set up a monthly meeting where you go to them or a quarterly meeting, whatever the frequency is that you need. And you say, "Here's the situation. Here's where they're trying to guilt-trip me. I don't know, is this something I should do or is this something I need to say, "No" to?"

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We need people to help us in this work, especially, with these relationships that are in that chronic category. Where there's some good, we are not willing to cut them off, but there's a lot of toxicity and we're susceptible to being sucked in. 

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Get one person, start with one person, and ask them say "I need you to be on my NO committee. I need you to be on my boundaries committee. I need to have a safe place to come and say, 'Hey, here's what's happening, here's the situation, would you be a second set of eyes and ears to help me see it objectively? 

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Am I being too tough in this situation? Do I need to bend here or are they getting the best of me? Are they sucking me in? In which case I'm going to need your help to go in and say, 'No, or stand firm, and let my actions speak loudest?'" 

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Get help, start with one person. Ideally, you'll end up with two or three people where you're going to specifically say, "I need your help in this particular relationship. Help me stand strong. Help me say a healthy NO. I'm going to need some discernment because sometimes I want to be kind to this person. 

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But a lot of times, boy, do they know how to push my buttons and suck me into something I don't want to do and if I know I've got you there. If I know once a month, once a week, once a quarter, I can come to you with this, it's going to help me stay healthier. 

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It's going to help me compartmentalize it, so I'm not thinking about it all the time. It's going to help me be a healthier person, in all of these other relationships that I really want to spend my time focusing on."

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So consider forming that boundaries committee. Who is someone who will help you with that? Who is someone, maybe it's a counselor, if you don't have a friend. Who is someone who can help you stay on that path of standing firm, of saying no through your wise, anchored actions? Who is that person? 

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That's your homework for this week? Who brings out the best of you? Who is going to help you stand firm in the face of that toxic relationship? Don't do it alone, get help. 

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Thank you for joining me on this episode and on this series of Setting Healthy Boundaries in a Biblical Way. There's so much more we could dive into. I can't wait to move into our next series that will be a continuation of this inner work that is so critical to standing firm, to saying, "No" to toxicity and saying "Yes" to the beautiful relationships, the beautiful life that God wants for us.

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EP –
25
Boundaries
How to Say "No" in Healthy Relationships

This week and next week on The Best of You podcast, we're getting into 3 types of "No"-including practical strategies, and scripts, for how to say No in different situations.

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First up is how to say no in healthy relationships. This episode is for you if you struggle to set a boundary, state a preference, or honor your own limits **even with people you know would respect you if you did.** It's hard to disappoint people. It's hard to assert honest needs, wants, and preferences when you've been conditioned to please others, fawn, or always put others first. So today we're focusing on how to exercise your "no muscle" even with people you love.

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Here's what we discuss:

1. Why learning to say "no" is vital for the the ongoing health of your relationships

2. 5 steps to develop your "no" muscle

3. Why criticism is tempting and how to avoid it

4. How to use "I statements" (and when not to)

5. Scripts for 3 different situations

6. What about when someone says no to you?

7. The hardest category of No I think we all have to face

 

Resources

Thanks to our sponsor Organifi -Go to www.organifi.com/bestofyou and use code BESTOFYOU for 20% off your order today!

While Dr. Cook is a counselor, the content of this podcast and any of the products provided by Dr. Cook are not specific counseling advice nor are they a substitute for individual counseling. The content and products provided on this podcast are for informational purposes only.

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Transcript

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Alison: Hey everyone, Welcome back to The Best of You podcast. I am so glad you keep coming back each week. To learn more about this work of establishing healthy boundaries and all of these different things we're diving into that relate to this topic. 

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I have so appreciated, again, your comments, your feedback, the reviews, you've been leaving on Apple, on Spotify. All the reviews you've been leaving on Amazon, related to my book, The Best of You, it just means so much to hear from you and to read about how the podcast, how the book is helping you, the questions that you have. 

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It helps me just feel encouraged to continue to go deeper and deeper into some of these topics. Every week I'm trying to expand and go a little more deeply, especially, in this series called Boundaries in the Bible. We're really drilling deep into what it means to do this work inside of yourself first. 

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To get really clear, to get really centered on the inside of you. So that you know what your convictions are. You know what you need to protect. You know what's valuable to you. You know what matters to you. You know those key relationships, those core values, those desires that you want to move toward, in partnership with God. 

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You've done the work you've discerned and now, inevitably, we bump up against obstacles and challenges, even in the healthiest relationships in our lives. Where we have to have hard conversations. We have to say no from time to time. In some instances, we have to say no and or we have to negotiate the boundary lines. 

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And, so, that brings us to today's episode. We've talked through some of these bigger picture themes, and today I really want to get into brass tacks. So we're going to get into three types of NO that you have to say, that we all have to say in life.

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It would be so nice if we could just waltz through life and agree with everything that everybody else wants for us. But it doesn't work that way. Again, even in our healthiest of relationships, we have to learn to really pay attention before God. To what we need to say "Yes" to and, inevitably, that will mean we have to say some "Nos" in our life. 

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And, so, I want to get into three categories, three types of NO. Based on the spectrum of toxicity we talked about in episode 24, last week. So these different ways of saying no relate to where this relationship, where the patterns of behaviors that this person has demonstrated, over time, fall on that spectrum of toxicity. 

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Because depending on where that person's behaviors fall on that spectrum, you are going to insert your, No, you're going to insert your boundary in a different way. All right, so here we go, let's get started. Number one, in today's episode, the first category of NO I want to touch on, is this category of saying NO in your healthy relationships. Now, it's such a different thing to go to someone you love, someone you trust, someone you have a really incredible history with and say, "No". 

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Sometimes this is a hard NO to say because we love this other person. We don't want to disappoint this person. But because of the demands on our time, because of our own limitations, because of the way God is leading you. 

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You sometimes find yourself in the position of having to say "No" to good things. To otherwise healthy things. We can't say "Yes" to everything. And, so, this first category is how do we say "No" in a healthy way because we want to honor the other person. 

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We want to honor the relationship. It might be honoring an organization. We might want to honor a work colleague, a boss that we respect. We want to show respect, but we still have to say "No" and for many of us you struggle with this. Because you're very empathetic, you have a kind heart, you never want to disappoint other people. 

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Maybe your conditioning has taught you that it's wrong to disappoint other people. That you should bend yourself into contortions to always say "Yes" and, so, you've just learned that. And, so, you don't even know how to develop this NO muscle even in a healthy relationship. 

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But here's the thing, if you don't learn how to say NO in your healthy relationships, you risk becoming resentful. You risk introducing unhealthy into a relationship that has potential to be really healthy. 

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It's a paradox, so in many ways, you are learning how to say NO. You're learning how to honor your limits in a respectful way, is the best thing you can do for the long-term, ongoing, sustainable health of this relationship. 

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Here are some examples; let's say your spouse really loves to spend the holidays with his family and this is challenging for you. You love your spouse. You love how much he loves his family or she loves her family, but there's a cost to you. 

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This happens, again, even in the healthiest of relationships, the people we love, and who are healthy, and who want the best for us still have blind spots. And, so, if you've been going along and doing this and, all of a sudden, you're starting to notice resentment. 

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You're starting to notice, "I don't want to do that this holiday." You've got to learn how to speak up for yourself in a healthy way. So that all that anger doesn't mount, doesn't pile up on the inside of you, and then it comes out in an unhealthy way.

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Another example is maybe you have a friend who loves to travel, who loves to eat out. Maybe she loves to spend a lot of money, maybe she has more time on her hand, maybe she just prioritizes her time and money in a different way. You can't, or don't want to, or maybe you don't have the money to spend all this time traveling, going to expensive dinners. 

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There are ways in which you prioritize differently. You love this friend, you cherish your friendship. But maybe you need to figure out a way to let her know that you're going to have to do things a little bit differently. You're going to have to say some NOS. 

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Another example, your colleague or maybe your church wants you to take on a new responsibility that you don't have capacity for. You love this organization. You love this person asking you, you want to be there for them. But the truth is if you say yes to them, you're goin to jeopardize your own health, your own family, other commitments that are really important to you. 

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So the point is, we have to learn to set boundaries to say NO, even in our healthy relationships. And, again, if you've struggled with people-pleasing, with codependency or you were conditioned to always put other people first. This can be challenging to assert your preferences even with people who are probably going to honor that NO.

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So again, first of all, you have to do that inner work that we've been talking about. You have to start paying attention to those little messages that creep into your mind that say things like, "It's okay, just take one for the team. Just do it again. It won't hurt anybody."

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Just start paying attention, if you're someone who's been conditioned to always say "Yes", to always put the other people first. Start to pay attention and just try. Try exercising your NO muscle. Here's how to do that, now, again, this is for your healthy relationships. You're going to use a different strategy with folks who are more on the toxic side of that spectrum. 

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So this is for a relationship that, for the most part, you're discerning. You're saying, "This is someone I actually think will respect my NO." And, so, I'm really aware so many of you will say that to me, like, "I know that they'll be okay with it. I can't get myself to do it." 

And I got to tell you, guys, I have been there and sometimes I still find myself in this position of saying "Yes" to someone who would have respected my NO, and it was because of me. It was because I just let my conditioning, I let that people-pleasing part of me get the best of me.

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So here's how to do it, and I'm adapting this from chapter six of The Best of You, start with YES. What is the YES you need to say to yourself? That means you're going to have to say this NO. This goes back to episodes 21 and 22, where we talked about what is a promise you have made to yourself? 

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What is a promise you have made to yourself that is important to you? That is going to get you over the hump of saying, "You know what, I think I need to say no to this. I need to exercise my NO muscle."

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Number two, don't go into it with criticism. Sometimes those of us who we have to almost get into a fight response inside of us to say no, even in a healthy situation. And, so, we're tempted to go in, kind of, mad at the other person for even asking this of us.

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But you know what, sometimes even the best of people they don't know. They don't know what you've got on your plate. They don't know what you've committed to, and I noticed that, again, to be transparent, in myself. 

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I'll get frustrated with someone I really love. Who I know wants the best for me, and I'm like, "Why are they asking this of me? They know it's hard for me to say "NO." And then I have to remind myself, "It's my job to say the NO. It's not their job to read my mind."

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Now, listen, if someone has asked you over and over, and they're blatantly disregarding the NO you've already said. Then, yes, that's a red flag we're getting into the toxic category, where you have to use a different strategy. 

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But in this category of no, remember, we're talking about people who are, for the most part, you've discerned, "They would respect my NO." And I'm just putting that out there because I see it in myself, I see it in my clients, I see it in my friends. 

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We'll all say, "Man, I'm frustrated with this person." But they haven't actually done something wrong in this situation. I'm frustrated because I'm invited to have courage. I'm invited to grow. I'm invited to be more assertive and that's hard for me. So we have to start looking at that as an invitation versus a reason to be frustrated with someone else, who doesn't know better. Again, on this healthy side of the spectrum.

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So you're going to start with, YES. You're going to work with that frustrated part of you, that you've got this invitation to do a hard thing to grow, to challenge yourself. And then closely related to that, number three, you're going to affirm the good. You're going to force yourself to see the good, the shared value, the common ground.

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Because you're going to go into this conversation, again, with this healthy person by affirming the good because that always helps things go better. When you can affirm the good when you can find the common ground.

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So number three, you're going to affirm the good. You're going to figure out the common ground. And then number four, you're going to use what I call- "I- statements." Now, "I-statements" I go through in detail in chapter nine on Negotiation, in The Best of You. 

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Again, "I-statements" work very well within healthy relationships. They're well researched, they're very effective, but here's the caveat, they do not work with people who are showing toxic patterns of behavior. They won't work there. So a lot of people come to me and they're like, "But I tried to use my 'I-statement' and this person twisted it and used it against me."

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And I'm like, "Exactly." Their one strategy they work within the context of healthy relationships. They work with people who really want to honor you, who want to respect you, people who are doing their own work. So, again, remember we are talking, right now, about folks who, for the most part, show behaviors that are on that healthy side of the spectrum. 

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So, What is an "I-statement"?  

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An "I-statement" is just what it sounds like, you start by looking at yourself. You lead with an "I-statement" versus a "You-statement". And I go through this process in-depth, step-by-step, including fill in the blanks with you, in chapter nine of The Best of You. 

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But, essentially, an "I-statement" would start with something to the effect of, "I sometimes feel frustrated, or overwhelmed, or exhausted when we spend five days at your parents' house over Christmas." And, again, we want to affirm the good. So in that script, we would first start with an affirmation of good, then go into the "I-statement". 

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But here's the thing, it's so different to say, "Sometimes I get really frustrated or overwhelmed, when we have to spend a lot of time with this particular family member." Maybe you're saying this to a spouse versus going to them and saying, "You don't care about me. You always drag me to spend all this time with your family."

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That would be a "You-statement." A "You-statement" is pointing the finger at someone else, it's criticizing them, it's assuming they're doing something to hurt you. An "I-statement" is just simply saying, "Hey, this is what happens inside of me when we do this. When this decision is made, as a result of this behavior." 

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And, so, it's taking that other person off the hot seat and saying, "I need you to know this is what goes on inside of me." Again, remember, this only works with people who are, for the most part, healthy. Because someone who's not healthy doesn't care what happens inside of you.

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But with someone who really loves you, a healthy spouse, a healthy parent, a healthy friend. You going to them and saying, "Hey, I need you to know this is something that goes on inside of me and, so, can we please revisit how we go about doing this thing?" It's a really great way to start that conversation. 

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Finally, last thing, you've started with YES. You've gotten to figure out what you need inside of yourself first. Number two, you're not going to criticize. Number three, you're going to affirm the good. Number four, you're going to use an "I-statement."

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Number five, propose an alternative. Come to the table with a positive proposal. Suggest an alternative. It's just a great way to honor this other person. Now, again, with a healthy person. Sometimes you won't have a proposed alternative, this, especially, works great with spouses. Sometimes you're just going to say NO in a really nice way. 

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But sometimes it's really helpful to propose an alternative. All right, those are the steps. Start with the YES, don't criticize the other person for asking or for putting you in this position. Assuming the best of them, especially, if they're someone who's shown a consistent pattern of health to you over time. Affirm the good. Use "I-statements", and propose an alternative. 

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So you've taken your notes, those are the steps, again, with healthy people. What does that look like in a real script?

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*** 

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So here are some scripts to help you through that. In the case of, we're coming into the holidays, you've got to plan your holidays with your spouse. Start with the YES you've figured out in yourself. What you've decided in yourself is, "It brings out the worst in me to spend day after day with my in-laws. I can't do it. I've got to do it differently this year."

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You've done that work. You've journaled, you've processed with a safe person, you've talked to God. You know you've got to do something differently this year. You've now got to approach the conversation with your spouse. Don't criticize, start with the good. 

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For example, "I love how loyal you are to your family. I want to support your relationship with your parents. I want to support you in your relationship with your siblings." Whatever it is that you can affirm, start with that. Give them the benefit of the doubt. You have immediately disarmed them by saying, "This is a great quality." Whatever it is that you can genuinely say in this scenario.

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So you start with the good, here's the thing, and then you get into your "I-statement." "I can get really overwhelmed and, frankly, even a little bit depressed if I'm stuck in the house all day, for a couple of days. I feel trapped. It's nothing against you, it's nothing against them, this is just what goes on inside of me."

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You've used an "I-Statement." You've really been clear about what's hard for you. So you're going to then move into proposing an alternative. Maybe you ask a question, "Would you be open to discussing a revised schedule for the day?"

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For example, "I'd love to spend a couple of hours, with your parents, over a meal. But then what I'd like to do is excuse myself and go do something else for a while." And you're just making a proposal for, "This is what I need." 

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Or you might say something like, "I'd like us to consider staying in a hotel this year. So that we can go to your parents, but when I'm feeling overwhelmed, or trapped, or stuck, I have a getaway. I can excuse myself and you can stay, that's fine."

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Or maybe, "We together decide, 'This is where the limit is and we're going to leave together.'" 

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Or maybe, "I'll take the kids and do something." There's lots of different room for negotiation there. But the point is you're proposing some suggested possibilities that honor their desire to be with their parents and your need to limit that time. 

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You're negotiating. You're being assertive. You're saying, "I want to honor you and I also need to honor myself. I'll show up in a far more healthy, generous way, with your family, if I've put some boundaries around it." Do you see how all of that is fairly positive? There's very little criticism there. You're honoring someone else and you're also honoring yourself. 

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Here's another example; the friend who maybe wants to spend more money than you do or wants to do things that you don't really want to do. Again, get clear in your mind about what you can say "Yes" to. What you want to say "Yes" to and, therefore, where you're going to have to set the boundary. 

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It might go something like this, start by affirming the good. "I love how exuberant you are. I love your zest for life that you want to eat out and take trips, and I really enjoy hearing about your adventures and I get so much from our friendship. 

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Here's the thing, I have a different capacity, I really love staying home. I really love a simpler life. I don't like traveling that much or I really love to save money, and that's not where I want to spend my money. 

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I just want you to know that I'm not going to do these expensive dinners anymore. I'm not going to go to these expensive shows. 

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I love that you love to do them, it's not my thing. I appreciate that you've invited me. I just want you to know this because I value you and I want you to know that I honor this part of you, and it doesn't work as well for me. So let's figure out the things that we actually enjoy, both of us, doing together."

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Again, that was a little long-winded. I'm speaking this out because sometimes, and you can read the script in a book. The scripts that I give you in the book are a lot tighter and cleaner. But, sometimes, when we're talking to a friend we're working it out in real time. 

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We're really trying to make sure they understand that we want to honor them and we're going to honor our own limits. And we're going to honor our own needs, and we're going to honor our own desires for how we spend our time, our money, our treasure, and our weekends. 

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It can also work in the reverse. So, for example, maybe you have a friend or a family member with whom you really long for more consistency. Maybe you feel like they blow you off, that they're irregular, they're inconsistent, and it stirs up anxiety in you.

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And, so, in a way, the NO that you're saying is to their inconsistency, and what you're inviting them into is more consistency. This is also a way of establishing a healthy boundary, of asserting yourself, of speaking up for yourself. It's less about saying NO and it's more about saying the YES, and requesting what you need from that friend. 

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But, again, if we're dealing with someone who is, for the most part, healthy, this is a conversation you can have. It takes courage, but here's one way you might do that. Again, affirm the good; "I love our friendship. I love to be more intentional about how we spend time together. Are you open to a conversation about how we could connect more regularly?" 

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Maybe, "I'm someone who just loves structure. What if we could schedule a weekly walk and talk? Where we go for a walk and chat?"

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Or if they live far away, "What if we could schedule a monthly Zoom or FaceTime? What if we could schedule a quarterly check-in?" Depending on the nature of the friendship and the relationship, you're, essentially, asking them to meet you in the middle ground. 

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"I'm not asking you to reach out to me every day, I am asking for consistency. Because what's really hard, for me, what I'm saying NO to is this erratic showing up." And you find out, and maybe they're like, "I've never thought about that. I never really thought about things that way, but sure, yes, let's do a quarterly call.

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Let's do a quarterly FaceTime and really enjoy that time together. Let's do a monthly call or let's do a weekly walk. Let's get coffee once a week or every two weeks." So you're meeting in the middle. You're negotiating what you need and what you want out of that relationship, in a way that honors that other person. 

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Now, again, that's using an "I-statement". 

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"I love structure."

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"I love consistency, and no criticism of you." You don't have to say that but that's what you're conveying in your tone. 

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Now, a "You-statement would be like, "You're inconsistent."

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"You make me anxious."

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"You're not a good friend." And that's never going to be a great way to start off a negotiation conversation, a NO conversation with a healthy relationship. Nobody wants to be put on the defense.

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Now, here's the thing, as we wrap up this category of NO with healthy people, you might get a NO in response. That friend who's inconsistent, might come back and say, "That doesn't work for me, I can't do it that way. I love you, but it's never going to work for me."

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And you have to figure out how to honor that, and maybe that means you're going to have to distance a little bit from that friend. Not to punish them but to protect yourself. Sometimes people say NO to what we ask for. 

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Maybe that friend who loves to go out for dinner all the time, is going to be disappointed because you're saying, "I'm not going to be your dinner buddy. I'd love to be your walking buddy or whatever it is. I'd love to be your book club buddy, but I'm not going to be your dinner buddy." And maybe they're a little disappointed with that. 

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Again, assuming that they're, for the most part, healthy, you can honor their disappointment and empathize with it, even. "I get that, that's disappointing. I wish I could be that friend, it's not going to be the best way for me to show up in this relationship."

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And, again, if they're healthy, they'll learn to respect that. I've had this happen time and again. I've done this over and over again, in my friendships. You can ask my friends and maybe it makes me a little weird, but I'll say to them, "I love structure. I need to put us on a system. Let's figure out the structure that works for us."

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There's some trial and error that works with that. Maybe someone is like, "I can tell they're going to start texting me every day. I'm not a texter, I don't like texting." I'm just putting it out there, that's not my thing. And, so, instead of saying, "Stop texting me." I say, "Hey, let's figure out a rhythm that works for both of us. How about we try a weekly walk and talk?"

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Where we don't live in the same state, we take a walk, we get on the phone together. So I try to be open, and creative, and curious about what's going to work. "I value this friend. I've decided I want some regularity with this friend. What works for both of us?" So you leave it up to some trial and error, and you figure out a rhythm that works. 

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Same with your spouse. "I want to date night, he likes to fly by the seat of his pants." How do you negotiate something that works for both of you? Use these principles, I'm going to walk through them one more time. 

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I go through them, in detail, in both chapter six and chapter nine of The Best of You in a much more linear scripted fashion. You're getting me talking it out in real time, in this podcast episode. But start with the YES. Start with the thing that you need, that starts from inside of you, and that'll keep you.

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That'll help you from, number two, criticizing them for not knowing what you need or the boundary that they've tripped over. Maybe, inadvertently, they've tripped over one of your boundaries. You know what it is, so you work to not be critical of them. You work with that part of you that's tempted to do that. 

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Number three, affirm the good, find the common ground. This is what we have in common; we want to be in relationship with each other, we value each other, we value time together. And then, number four, use "I-statements" to communicate what you're feeling isn't working. And it's not, "I feel like what you're doing isn't working."

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It's, "This is what happens inside of me as a result of this behavior, and it's no criticism on you. It's just I need you to know this is what happens inside of me." And then, lastly, propose an alternative. Propose a couple of alternatives. "Can we even have a conversation about what might work better?" Again, with a healthy person, you can have that conversation. 

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And then have fun figuring that out. Again, this is all in that healthy side of the spectrum of toxicity. 

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Now I'm going to touch on this middle category, what I call chronic. It's where there is some good and there's also very real limitations, maybe, even a little toxicity. I believe this is the hardest category of NO to say.

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This second category, saying NO to folks where there's some good, you don't want to cut them out of your life entirely. You don't feel like that's the right thing to do. There might even be some good in the relationship, but there's also some toxicity. This is a hard category. It might be a person where there's a lot of good, but there's some limitations. In terms of what they can do and bring, and how much they're doing their own work. 

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It might be a person you feel some responsibility to, such as a parent, an adult child, or another family member, maybe, a friend with whom you have a long history. But they have some really challenging qualities and some really challenging patterns of behaviors, that do not seem likely to change. 

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Maybe it's a co-parent, you've divorced but they're helping you parent your child. And, so, you're in relationship with this person. Maybe it's a work colleague, someone who goes to your church who is really challenging for you, but you're part of the same community. I think this is the hardest category of NOS to say.

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And with that teased up, we're going to pause here and we're going to circle back, next week, to the second and third category of NO where actions speak far louder than words. So we're going to go into that next week. We're going to get into some of these more sophisticated skills where communication, verbally, is not the primary strategy. 

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In fact, communicating with words actually is not wise and you're going to need to lead with very clear actions. You may use some words, but for the most part, it's your actions that are going to work. 

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We're going to get into that in next week's episode. It's the last episode in this series, on How to Set Healthy Boundaries in a Biblical Way. And I'm also going to answer the question; what about turning the other cheek? Which, as it turns out, is a very sophisticated strategy you can use with folks who are more on this toxic side of the spectrum of toxicity. 

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So this week, practice using your NO muscle in your healthy relationships. I want you to practice saying NO where there's some low-hanging fruit. Where there's someone who, for the most part, you're like, "This person's going to get it. It's hard, I'm going to have a hard time having this conversation." 

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But I want you to practice writing a script, affirming the good, using your "I-statement", proposing an alternative, practice it with the safest person you can think of. That's how you begin to develop this NO muscle. 

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You don't start with your hardest situation. It's like going to the gym; you don't start with the heaviest weights. You start where you know you can get some success. So practice using that NO muscle in a safe context this week. 

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Use those principles I talked through in this episode today. Check chapter six and chapter nine of The Best of You. Where I walk you through those things in details, including some fill-in-the-blank exercises. Practice with the low-hanging fruit. 

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Next week we're going to come back, where we're getting more to where there's some toxicity, and even some major toxicity on that side of the spectrum where actions are going to speak loudest. Where you're going to have to get to some next level skills on how to say "No" in more toxic situations. 

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I've also got a really cool strategy, that has nothing to do with saying "No" to other people that I can't wait to share with you next week. It's something I've done in my own life to help me and it really works, and it's the fun part of this. 

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This is all really hard, so we've got to have a fun part of how to do this work, of saying "No" in a healthy way, in a respectful way, but in a way that does not let other people get the best of you. Thank you for joining me. I can't wait to come back and finish out this conversation and this series next week.

EP –
24
Boundaries
The Spectrum of Toxicity

Today on The Best of You podcast, we're diving into how to discern toxic vs. healthy patterns of behavior. There is no one-size fits all when it comes to setting healthy boundaries. It requires discernment and wisdom; strategy and skill. That's why it's so important to understand what I call the Spectrum of Toxicity. I also weigh in on the topic of evil (a topic so many of you have asked me about!)

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Here's what we cover:

1. What is toxicity? How does it relate to what the Bible calls evil?

2. What about people who are consistently choosing to do harm?

3. The spectrum of toxicity

4. Behaviors that show up on the healthy side of the spectrum

5. Behaviors that show up on the toxic side of the spectrum

6. The key ingredient that distinguishes health from toxicity

7. The best way to become a discerning, wise (& healthier) person.

8. What does the Bible say about toxicity?

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Resources

Thanks to our sponsor Organifi -Go to www.organifi.com/bestofyou and use code BESTOFYOU for 20% off your order today!

While Dr. Cook is a counselor, the content of this podcast and any of the products provided by Dr. Cook are not specific counseling advice nor are they a substitute for individual counseling. The content and products provided on this podcast are for informational purposes only.

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Transcript

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Alison: Welcome back to this week's episode of The Best of You podcast. I am so glad you're here and I want to thank you so much for your comments and questions every week. But especially about last week's episode on Sin and Woundedness, and how those two things go together. That's such an important topic and I so appreciated hearing from you. 

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Several of you asked me what is the best way to get me your feedback on a specific episode? And the best way to do that is to go to the episode webpage on my website at dralisoncook.com/podcast. Each episode has its own page, and you'll find a place there to leave comments, you can interact with others. You can also visit the episode post on my Instagram or Facebook Feed. It's @dralisoncook both places and leave a comment. 

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I can't respond to all emails or comments, but I try to read as many as possible to get a sense of what your questions are. So I do take into account all the questions and comments I'm getting from you. And today's episode, a big chunk of it comes out of several questions that you sent me. 

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So I appreciate that so much, thank you for listening, thank you for engaging. I am so grateful for this opportunity to just connect with you in this way. 

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So far in this series on Boundaries and the Bible, we've been laying a foundation about how to first connect to yourself. The importance of making a promise to yourself. The importance of learning how to even know, deep inside yourself, what you need, what you want. 

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Maybe when one of your boundaries has been violated, it's hard, as I say a million times. It's an incredibly hard to set healthy boundaries with other people, if you don't know what you need to say yes to in your own life, in your own soul, in your own work of healing first.

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So we've really been laying this foundation. Last week we went into looking at our areas of wounding, even at our areas of sin, where we might be tempted to react out of our hurt instead of respond in a healthy way. So we've been really doing this inner work. 

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Well, today, it's finally time, we're going to start to look externally, to the patterns of behavior that are around us in the other people in our lives. So finally today, we're going to get into how we can understand those behaviors that come our way, and how we can be wise in responding to other people's behaviors. Whether it's toxicity or even healthy people, who are behaving in a way that we need to address. 

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So here are a couple of thoughts that a few of you shared with me, after last week's episode, and they lead into today's episode. So I want to read them out loud to you. Austin wrote in and said it reminded him of a quote, and this is the quote, we're trying to figure out who said this. So if anyone knows please leave a comment. But the quote is, "We are more wounded than wicked." And I thought that was a really great way to summarize last week's episode. 

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Yes, we have to pay attention to the sin in our lives. But as we consistently move toward health, move toward healing, turn away from those impulses, we become more healthy. And, yes, we'll still have wounds, but we're going to move away from this word, "Wickedness". We're going to get into that today. 

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Here's another question that came my way that I want to get into today, what about evil? So a few of you left me notes with questions like these, after last week's episode.

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"How does this idea of woundedness apply to narcissists and even sociopaths? Do we still think of them as wounded, or is there a point at which someone is simply acting out of sheer malice?" That's a great question, and it raises this topic of what I'm going to call evil.

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So if we're mostly wounded and mostly sinning, as a result of woundedness. And we're constantly working to notice where we've been wounded, where we might be tempted to miss the mark, there's hope. 

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There's so much hope. There's hope for healing. There's hope that we can become increasingly healthy. There's hope that we can continue to show compassion for ourselves, for our loved ones, as we are on this journey that we'll never fully achieve.

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We're never going to fully become the healthiest, best version of ourselves this side of heaven. But we can certainly become more and more, and more healthy. So there's a lot of hope right in that message. 

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But in this question, that a few of you sent me, there's this idea of, but what about people who are consistently choosing to do harm? They're not turning away, as we talked last week, they're not repenting or just turning away from sin. They're not turning toward this work of healing. 

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They're instead doing the opposite. They're consistently turning toward going their own way. They're consistently turning toward these acts of destruction, these acts of harm, these acts of taking matters into their own hands. 

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It's a series of choices over time that gets so destructive, that there's very little goodness left. And we do see this, and I don't want to be naive, there are folks, and let's pray first and foremost, that we are not these people. 

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There are folks who are so consistently choosing the path of sin. The path away from healing. The path away from facing wounds honestly, before God, that they begin to move in the opposite direction. They're moving away from health and moving toward increasing levels of toxicity. 

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Now, we use this word toxicity a lot, and if you think about the word toxicity, it means poisonous. If you ingest a toxic substance, it's poison to your body. Similarly, to our psyches, to our souls, if we expose ourselves to toxicity, it is soul-killing. And really, another word for this, or the biblical word for this, or the spiritual word for this is evil. There is a father of lies. There is a father of toxicity. 

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So I'm not going to get into a theology of evil in this episode. It's outside of the scope really of my expertise, although I do believe it exists and I do believe that we don't want to be naive about it. A couple of books, and I'll link to these in the show notes. 

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That if you're interested to learn more you might consider The Screwtape Letters by C. S. Lewis. The People of the Lie by M. Scott Peck, it's an excellent book. And a more recent book called Live No Lies by John Mark Comer. 

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But there's a really great example of this in a lot of literature. In the Narnia Tales we see this. In Lord of the Rings we see this. If you're a Harry Potter fan, there's a really vivid description of this process, in the sixth book where we see this dark Lord Voldemort who is the epitome of evil, in the movie. He's the bad guy, he's the destructive force, he's gone completely toxic. 

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But in the sixth book, they show him as a young boy and you get this sense of the million tiny decisions this boy made. Sure he was wounded. Sure there was pain there. 

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He's smart, he's fascinated by power, he's fascinated by danger, and instead of moving toward healing. You see him, they depict him making a series of decision, after decision, after decision of choosing the dark path instead of moving toward healing.

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So there's a series of choices, and as a psychologist, I see this from time to time. I'll see a life, someone who had options, they had opportunities. But they make a million tiny steps toward not facing their shame honestly, not facing their wounds honestly. Blaming other people, going after other people, lying, covering up, deceiving, and it becomes increasingly and increasingly toxic. 

And I want to say to those of you who are saying, "What about a sociopath?" Yes, a sociopath, who knows, was there a wound there at the very beginning? Probably. At what point did that person just choose over and over again to move toward darkness. To move away from the healthy, beautiful work of healing that God wants us to move toward and move toward the opposite of that, which is toxicity.

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At whatever point that became so toxic that there's no hope left, I don't know. I don't know the answer to that question. As a psychologist I'm always going to hold out hope, but I don't want us to be naive. 

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And I want to give you just two examples; one from Theologian N.T. Wright and one from a Bible passage that I think speak to this, again, in the interest of not being naive. So here's an example from theologian N.T. Wright, how he talks about this phenomenon. 

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It's from his book, Surprised by Hope, page 182, and basically what Wright says is this, "It is possible for human beings so to continue down this road, so to refuse all whisperings of good news. All glimmers of true light. All promptings to turn and go the other way. All signposts to the love of God that they can." And I quote him here, "Progressively cease to reflect the image of God, right?"

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So he's kind of talking about this, that these million choices to go in the wrong direction. To keep moving away from God's path, from becoming the best of who we are, that in Wright's words, "That person can progressively cease to reflect the image of God." 

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Now, the Scripture passage, that comes to mind, that underscores what Wright is saying, is from Romans 1:24-32. And I'm going to quote it from the Message version, which is Eugene Peterson's modern-day version of this passage. 

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And here's the quote, speaking about this kind of person, this is the quote from Scripture, "So God said, in effect, 'If that's what you want that's what you get.' It wasn't long before they were living in a pig pen, smeared with filth, filthy inside and out. And all this because they traded the true God for a fake God, and worshiped the God they made instead of the God who made them, the God we bless, the God who blesses us."

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And then the Message goes on to say, quote, "Worse followed, refusing to know God they soon didn't know how to be human either. Since they didn't bother to acknowledge God, God quit bothering them and let them run loose. And then all hell broke loose, rampant evil, grabbing and grasping, vicious backstabbing, they made life hell on earth, with their envy, killing, bickering, and cheating." 

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And it goes on and on to describe, again, this type of person. That essentially in Eugene Peterson's words, God is kind of saying, "Turning them loose. If that's what you want, then here's what you get."

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We do reap what we sow on some level, and if we choose again and again to cover over our woundedness, to cover over our shame, through all of these things that are just listed. 

Through grabbing and grasping, through backstabbing, through hurting other people, through projecting onto other people, we are going to become less and less like that beautiful soul that God made us to become. And we're going to become a really terrible, toxic person. 

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So it's not a pleasant topic. I don't love talking about this, but it's a reality, we need to be wise, we need to not be naive. And the point is, I don't want to minimize the reality that some people turn so consistently towards sin, toward destruction. That at some point it's hard to find any glimmer of goodness. 

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A couple of points I want to make, I don't think this is common, it's very real. I don't think it's our job to try to discern when someone has crossed over to that point of no return, I don't know when that is. It's not something I'm comfortable trying to sort out. 

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I'm always going to hold out hope that somebody can turn back toward God. I don't think that's my job. But I do think it's our job to discern how someone else's consistent patterns of behavior, over time, are impacting us and I do think it's our job to protect ourselves. 

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Remember boundaries are about protecting you. They're not about analyzing, changing, condemning, judging, criticizing, or figuring out someone else, they're about being wise. So this brings us to what I call the spectrum of toxicity, and I spell this out in chapter six of The Best of You. And I think it's critical to understand in this work of setting healthy boundaries. So let's get into the spectrum of toxicity.

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< Music >

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So as you consider your own relationships, you need to recognize that healthy behavior and toxicity exist on a spectrum. Very few people are totally toxic, as I already said, and no one is entirely healthy. This means that the work of setting healthy boundaries requires nuance and skill. You don't want to come down with a hammer on a behavior, when a fly swatter is what's needed. 

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You also don't want to let someone who is using toxic strategies get the best of you. We can err to both extremes when it comes to setting healthy boundaries with other people's behaviors. 

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Now, remember sometimes we're setting healthy boundaries just by saying, "No", no one's done anything wrong. But today we're really talking about what do we do when someone else's behaviors start to impact us in a negative way, and we need to push back. We need to bring in those boundaries to address that situation. We need to tighten up those guardrails. 

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Sometimes when someone else's behavior hurts us or causes us to get activated, sometimes grace is needed. Sometimes that's what's needed. Sometimes you need to speak up for yourself. You need to be assertive, you need to advocate for yourself, and sometimes it wouldn't be safe to speak up for yourself. That would actually give the other person more ammunition. 

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So those are three examples of where we have to know what we're dealing with. What we know, number one, is something happened. "I've been hurt. Something is going on I don't like. Something is harming me. Something is going on in this relationship that I need to address." We've got to know what we're dealing with, so we can approach that instance in a strategic, wise way. 

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So how do you gauge what response is required? Well, first, you have to assess where your particular situation falls on this spectrum of toxicity.

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So let me explain what I mean by that to you. Imagine a half circle and on one end of the spectrum, on the far right hand of the spectrum, are people who are mostly healthy. On the other end of that spectrum, all the way to the left side of that spectrum, are people who are mostly toxic, and that's what I mean by a spectrum. 

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Most of us fall in that upper, hopefully, we're mostly healthy. We're more toward healthy, somewhere right up in the middle of your, imagine an arrow that cuts that half circle in half. Someone's kind of right on the edge, there's a little bit of toxicity, but there's some health. We want to stay on that healthy side of the spectrum. 

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So what qualities do we see in the behaviors of people who are on the healthy side of that spectrum? Well, these are people who are taking responsibility for their own behaviors. It's not that these are people who don't get things wrong, who don't make mistakes, who might not hurt you from time to time, but they know how to take personal responsibility. 

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They can have a conversation about ruptures or conflicts that might have occurred in a healthy way. They can honor that they might have blind spots, there's humility. They can consider the possibility that they might have made a mistake. There's room for conversation. 

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They can apologize when they've made a mistake. Bottom line is people who are behaving in a healthy way are not perfect people. But they are people who are doing the work of taking responsibility for their own actions. 

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They can communicate, you can talk things through, they can apologize, there's humility. In general, there's a posture of kindness, they're not cruel, they're not coming after you when they've done something wrong. 

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We see the fruit of God's Spirit. We see self-control, we see patience. We begin to see more of those types of qualities in someone who's on the healthy side of that spectrum. Again, not perfection, but personal responsibility. 

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Then we get to the middle part of that spectrum. Where I was saying someone who's got some of those healthy qualities. But they're also sometimes committing boundary fouls in a consistent way.

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This might be a parent, an in-law, who genuinely cares about you, who genuinely cares about your children. But at the same time she does some things that are annoying. Maybe she doesn't respect your rules, they're not toxic, but it's challenging.

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You're constantly having to say, "Hey, mom. Hey dad, you can't do that when you're with my kids." Maybe you have a friend who's pretty self-centered and they're often talking about themselves. 

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They're not cruel, they look out for you in certain ways, but you're never really going to be able to get them to hear you. They're not someone you're going to turn to when you need emotional support. That's what I mean by they're healthy for the most part. They're not cruel, they're not hurting you, but maybe there's some limitations there because of some of their own un-faced wounds. 

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Maybe it's a friend who likes to gossip and you love that friend, but, man, you're always having to steer the conversation away from that gossiping part of her. Again, these are folks who aren't toxic, but there might be a limit to how deep you can go with this type of person. And sometimes we find ourselves in this category. 

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Sometimes there are parts of us where we haven't done enough work, or we're still struggling a little bit. Where we've done a lot of work toward health, we're moving toward that healthy side of the spectrum. But there's still parts of us that we're still working on. We're still works-in-progress. Again, there's no shame in any of this. We're trying to understand. We're trying to name not shame. 

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Now, we move into that toxic side of the spectrum. These are individuals who are living mostly out of the worst of who we are. And in their behaviors we see that they're not able to take responsibility for their own actions. 

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Instead, they tend to blame other people. They tend to shame other people, they tend to criticize, manipulate, guilt trip, belittle. They tend to go after others because they're not doing their own work.

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They don't want what's best for you. They're worried about their own image, and we talked about this in the series on buzzwords, on psychology buzzwords part two. We went through a lot of these toxic behaviors, and I also have a whole webinar on some of these toxic behaviors. 

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But, in general, these are toxic because not only is that person not doing their own work, that would be one thing, so there's limitations. That's why we're more in that center place. But where we move toward this left side of the spectrum is they're A, not doing their own work. But B, because of that, they're engaging in these behaviors that are toxic to you, that are going after you. 

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This might be a parent, who's never done their own work to heal their own pain. And, so, as a result, they try to control you. They try to make sure you never bring shame on them. And, so, they're constantly controlling your behaviors, that's really toxic to you, especially, if you were raised in an environment like that. 

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You might have a spouse or a friend who cannot take responsibility for their own mistakes and, so, they blame shift. They might say, "It's your fault that I lie."

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"It's your fault that I started down this toxic path." It might not be malicious, it doesn't matter, it's still toxic. Someone on this side of the spectrum is not taking responsibility for their own healing, and as a result, their behaviors are designed to make you feel like it's your fault.

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Because when you can't face, we've talked about this in so many other episodes. When you can't face your own stuff, honestly, you have to take it out on other people. You have to blame other people.

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Now, on the extreme left side of this toxicity spectrum are those who are downright abusive. We're getting into this area, that we were talking about earlier, where they are trying to harm you. There's intent, there's malice, they want to cause harm. 

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They want to harm you physically, emotionally, spiritually, these are major boundary violations. This behavior cannot and should not be tolerated, and there's a very specific way you have to address a person like this. You're not going to use the same strategy with this kind of person, that you're going to use with someone who's relatively healthy and who made a mistake. 

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So my point with this spectrum of toxicity is for you to understand the importance of context. You have to take into account the context. You have to begin to study patterns of behavior.

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Consider the following example, let's say, situation A, you have a friend who hurts you. Maybe they talk behind your back and it gets back to you, and it's painful, you've got to deal with that. What that friend did was hurtful. 

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But here's the thing, is this a one-time offense? Where this friend got pulled in to a toxic behavior, but overall, they're apologizing. They're taking responsibility, they're showing that this is not a pattern of behavior, this is a one off. It still hurts. You still have to deal with it, but there's a context to that behavior. 

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On the other hand, situation B, you have a friend who talks behind your back and it comes to your attention, and you dig into it a little bit and you start to realize, "Oh, my gosh, this is a pattern. They are constantly criticizing me, throwing me under the bus, behind my back. They aren't a friend to me, they're never really coming to my aid. They're in fact saying slanderous things. This isn't a friend at all."

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And, again, this seems like an obvious example. But you start to dig a little deeper and you start to go, "There's a pattern of behavior here, where this person is really demeaning me consistently, and I have to take a completely different course of action in setting boundaries with this person. This is toxic. There's a pattern of behaviors here that is toxic."

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So in both cases, you're going to need to set a boundary, but it's going to be very different in situation A, where the person is coming to you, they're saying, "I'm sorry." Or maybe you had to confront the person, but still they're saying, "I'm sorry. I did it, I was wrong. Here's what was going on with me, I'm not making excuses, but I want you to know this is not who I really am."

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And you start to pay attention to their character over time. Versus situation two, where the person makes excuses. The person doesn't admit it, the person blames other people, and you start to realize, "This person talks behind everybody's back, this is a part of who they are. They're not a faithful friend."

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Now, next week I'm going to walk you through the different types of responses to the different types of boundary fouls. So today I want you to become aware of context; "Is this someone who's mostly on the healthy side of the spectrum, and therefore I've got to figure out how to address this in a very specific way?"

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"Is this someone who is in a gray area? There are some patterns of behavior here that aren't great. But there is some good and, so, that's going to take some nuance in how I approach this." 

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Or, "Is this someone where it's mostly toxic? And then I've got to take a whole different approach." So stay tuned next week for what I'm calling Three Categories of No. And in the meantime, I want you to remember the following, the more you do this work inside yourself first, the more discerning and wise you will become with other people. 

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And this is what Jesus says, He says, "Always look at yourself first before you go to remove the speck on someone else's eye." In my own life, as I've confronted my own wounds, as I've looked honestly at my own temptations to miss the mark. As I've gotten really honest with myself and with God, I begin to grow wise. 

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Humility breathes wisdom, as I'm humble before God and face my own blind spots, my own temptations to lash out, to criticize, to lie, to cover over my mistakes. As I become more and more aware of those pulls on my own soul, and I learn more and more to do the hard work of turning toward truth. Of turning toward honesty, of turning toward healing in my own life. Guess what, I become way more perceptive about noticing what's going on in people around me. 

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As we take responsibility for our own behaviors, as we learn what a genuine apology looks like when we make mistakes. As we learn to face our own shame, our own wounds. As we talk honestly about areas where we're struggling with God. 

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As we notice where we're tempted to veer off course or miss the mark. As we notice where we're tempted to lash out, to lie, to manipulate. Not to shame ourselves, but simply in the interest of this honest, self-examination, we become more wise. We become more discerning. As we become healthier ourselves, we have less tolerance for toxicity in other people.

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Finally, as we close, here's some wisdom and the biblical basis for this work of establishing healthy boundaries. So many of us have been taught to love others, to always be kind. But here's the thing, it's also biblical to be discerning, to be wise, and to be brave. In particular, the Bible cautions us to be wary of fools, mockers, and hard-hearted people who, due to their unhealed pain, harm others.

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Here are some examples from Proverbs 5:9, "You don't want to squander your wonderful life. To waste your precious life among the hard-hearted."

From Proverbs 14:7, "Escape quickly from the company of fools. They are a waste of your time, a waste of your words. From Matthew 10:16, Jesus said, "I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore, be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves."

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These are powerful statements that I think we need to hear more about in our faith communities. We do need to love others. Grace is a powerful antidote, especially, to those who are wounded and trying to heal. 

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But we also need to be wise and discerning because not everybody is doing that work. Not everybody is doing the work of trying to turn toward healing, and we are not called to love others while, simultaneously, causing injury to ourselves. That is not the example we see in Scripture. Yes, we are to love others, and yes, we are also to be wise.

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I can't wait to join you next week, to talk through these three ways of saying no. And in the meantime remember to ask yourself this question; what's bringing out the best of me? And moving toward that is the foundation to all these nos, we're going to learn how to say.

EP –
23
Spiritual Wholeness
Am I wounded or am I sinful?

Today on the podcast, we're diving into this question I keep bumping up against. On one hand, we go to church, and we're told you're sinful; you need to repent, you need to die to yourself.

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On the other hand, we go to therapy, and we're told you're wounded; you've had trauma. You need to heal, so you can become more of your true self. So which one is it?

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In today's podcast episode, we discuss:

1. What is woundedness and how does it impact our behaviors?

2. What is sin?

3. The problem of shame

4. What about "the other side of sin" - the wounds of the sinned against?

5. What about repentance?

6. An application from the Bible

7. A next step you can take

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Resources

Thanks to our sponsor Organifi -Go to www.organifi.com/bestofyou and use code BESTOFYOU for 20% off your order today!

While Dr. Cook is a counselor, the content of this podcast and any of the products provided by Dr. Cook are not specific counseling advice nor are they a substitute for individual counseling. The content and products provided on this podcast are for informational purposes only.

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Transcript

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Alison: Hey everyone, welcome back to The Best of You podcast. Where today we are going to talk about everybody's favorite or not so favorite S-word, and that is this word sin. 

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So we're in this series on boundaries and the Bible, and we've been talking, if you've been following along these last two episodes. We've been talking about keeping a promise to yourself. About building trust with yourself. 

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We've been, really, talking about this internal work that we all have to do in order to gain the clarity and to gain the courage, to set the healthy boundaries that we need to set with other people in our lives.

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Because, so often, this work of setting boundaries is the result of some form of activation. Something happens outside of us, that stirs up something negative on the inside of us. Whether it stirs up stress, anxiety, frustration, anger, exhaustion, overwhelm, whatever it may be. We begin to feel chaotic on the inside, and we start to think to ourselves or someone else says to us, "It's time to tighten up my boundaries."

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"It's time to get some healthier boundaries."

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But what I'm, really, trying to do in this series is to go deep on that internal work that's required to, really, ensure that the boundaries we're setting in our external lives, in our relationships with our kids, with our friends, with our family members, with our churches, with the people in our lives, are flowing from that centered clear place inside. 

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That they're an actual reflection of who we, really, are and what we, really, need. And that requires us getting to know our own selves. It, especially, requires that we get to know our own woundedness, our own limitations, and I talk about this a lot. 

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That we have to be able to face our areas of wounding. We have to be able to face our own areas of pain, of woundedness, of vulnerability. Because these are the parts of us that are ours to protect, and we want to be sure we're going about setting the right boundaries. 

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Setting the boundaries, in the right way, that allow for these vulnerable parts of us to get the care they need, primarily, from us and, also, keep those parts of us from those things in our external lives that cause them further pain. 

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Now, inevitably, this conversation, about our internal terrain. About building trust with ourselves. About honoring our vulnerabilities. About paying attention to the parts of us that are hurting and that are susceptible to pain, that may have been wounded long ago, and that continue to need our protection. 

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Inevitably, this conversation brings up this question, what about sin? 

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"You know, Alison, you're telling me I should trust myself. That I should, in fact, spend time building trust with myself. But aren't I a sinner?

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How can I, really, trust myself? 

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How can I, really, keep a promise to myself?

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How can I, really, do this internal work of building trust. Of living from deep inside myself when what I, really, am is a sinner?"

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These are the kinds of questions that I get. So let's talk about it. Let's dive in. Let's talk about what about sin? 

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How are we to factor in this idea of sin? 

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And, I think, some of the reason this question is surfacing so much. And why I've been thinking about it so much, as a therapist, there's, really, within the last 20 years, this whole understanding of trauma. And this understanding of what it means that we are wounded. That we have wounds in our lives, in our bodies, in our souls, and that these places of wounding are vulnerable. 

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And that there's a reason, sometimes, that we act out. That there's a reason that we behave in certain ways that, sometimes, we wish we didn't. That we reach for our survival strategies. That, maybe, we reach to please others, to earn the approval of others. That, maybe, we look for love outside of those healthy relationships that we've committed to. 

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Where, maybe, we are inclined to numb pain with drugs, alcohol, shopping, spending, gambling, you name it. We develop these coping strategies, so often, to help us survive. Because we've got pain on the inside. 

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And this is what this whole trauma-informed approach to understanding the human soul, the human heart, the human body has raised. It's like, "Oh, my goodness, there's a reason I do the things that I wish I didn't do." And, so, on one hand, we go to a church and our church communities, our faith communities, sometimes, our pastors are saying, "You're sinful."

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"You've got to repent."

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"You were born with a sinful nature."

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So we hear that message and we think, "Okay, I'm bad. I should look at all of this in my life as sin. All of this complexity, all of this messiness, all of this brokenness."

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But, on the other hand, maybe, I'm going to my therapist over here and my therapist is saying, "This is trauma."

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"You've been wounded."

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"You've got to learn to heal."

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"You've got to learn to become more true to yourself. To become more whole in your relationships with yourself and other people."

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So we've got these two conflicting messages. On, one hand, we're told, "You are a sinner. Repent." On the other hand, you're being told, "You are wounded, heal." Which one is it? "Am I wounded or am I a sinner? And how can I trust myself in the middle of all of this?"

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So let's start with this idea of woundedness or trauma. Trauma, as I discussed in episode four, you can go back and listen to that episode. There's, also, a whole chapter on it in my new book, The Best of You.

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I look at trauma, as I've dived in so much of the research these last 15 to 20 years on trauma. I boil it down to this idea of unwitnessed pain.

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These are unhealed wounds that live inside our souls. And these wounds are where we are vulnerable. It's where we've been hurt by other people. It's where we didn't receive the care that we needed. And, in many cases, it's where we've been hurt, actively abused, exploited, abandoned, by the people who were supposed to care for us, who were supposed to love us. 

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So where we have these wounds that haven't, yet, been healed, that we may not even know about. We're, really, vulnerable. And here's the thing, shame loves to enter in through these wounds. Especially, where they haven't been exposed, yet, to healing. Where they haven't, yet, been exposed to loving compassion. 

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Shame sneaks in through our wounds and tells us we're bad. It tells us that what happened to us was our fault. It tells us we're worthless, that we're rejectable, that we are unlovable. It tells us there's a reason we were cast aside.

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Shame wants to keep us locked down. It wants to keep us isolated. It wants to keep us from the life that God has for us. We're vulnerable where we are wounded. We're vulnerable to more pain. We're vulnerable to being hurt by other people in the exact places where we've already been hurt. 

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So when we get activated in our adult lives. When someone else does or says something that hurts so badly. It's often a wound, an old bruise that gets touched on, that gets tripped over. And when we're activated, when our whole nervous system, our whole fight/flight response goes into effect, poised to protect us. 

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That's how God designed our bodies. Where we're vulnerable, we go into survival mode. We sniff out danger, we sense hurt, and we go into our fight/flight response. 

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We want to fight. We might want to flee. We might also freeze, and some of us move into fawn, which is where we try to please or win over the very people who are trying to hurt us. And I go, again, into a lot of this in episode four of the podcast and in chapter two of The Best of You. 

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So our wounds are where we're vulnerable. We're vulnerable to shaming messages inside our own soul, and we're vulnerable to hurt from other people. We're also vulnerable to acting out in ways we wish we didn't. So there's a lot of room for compassion here, and this brings us to this conversation about sin.

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< Music >

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So, first of all, what is sin? Sin is what we do when we're activated. It's a behavior or a posture of the heart. Sin, simply, means to miss the mark, and we talked about this a little bit in episode 21. 

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But if we're walking down the path of our life and we're in a good place, and we like where we're going. Sin is this distraction; an obstacle comes our way. Someone digs at us. Someone hurts us. Someone might betray us. Someone might ignore, reject, neglect us, and that old wound gets activated. And we're tempted to veer off that path.

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We're tempted to go down a road that might not, actually, be in our best interest. Or in the best interest of this life that God has before us. We, sometimes, go off that path. We might even miss the mark in how we respond to that hurt that comes our way. That temptation that comes our way.

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On one hand, we've been hurt, that's our woundedness. On the other hand, we have a choice to make out of that hurt. And, sometimes, that choice we make misses the mark, and we might call that sin.

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But there's something I want you to hear me say about this word sin. It's a churchy word. It's a word that has a lot of baggage that comes with it. We have to disentangle this word sin. This idea of missing the mark, making a choice that, maybe, isn't in the best interest of the situation at hand of the moment. 

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We have to disentangle this word sin from shame. And, I think, that's where there's been such a misalignment in so many of the church messages. We've gotten the solution to the fact that every single one of us has wounds. That every single one of us, is going to be tempted to act out of those wounds from time to time.

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In many ways, some of us, our whole nervous system is positioned to miss the mark. It's cued up to go into fight mode, and we, almost, don't have conscious control over it in some moments. That's why it's so important to recognize there's no shame in missing the mark. We can name something without shaming it. 

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We can name the fact, "Oh, my gosh, I missed the mark."

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"I lashed out."

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"I reached for the booze."

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"I scrolled social media for four hours instead of facing my own pain. And, as a result, I neglected a friend or I neglected a responsibility. I missed the mark." We can name that. We can own that. We can honor that without shame. Shame is never the solution. It's never the solution to our wounds, and it's never the solution to our sin. It's never the solution to when we miss the mark.

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In fact, if we don't learn how to name when we miss the mark, as a result, so often of our woundedness. If we don't learn how to name when we miss the mark without shame, it's so very hard to heal.

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Imagine something with me, for a moment, where do you think we're the most tempted to miss the mark. To veer off the path. To take matters into our own hands. To go into that fight/flight response. 

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Do you think we're the most tempted to do that when we're in our most confident? Our most alive, our most joyful, our most peaceful selves? 

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Do you think that's where we're tempted to miss the mark? 

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It's not. We're the most tempted to miss the mark. To protect ourselves. To cover up, to hide, to manage other people, to hurt someone else, to lash out, to project on someone, where we are the most wounded.

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Our wounds are, intimately, tied to where we're the most susceptible to shame. And where we're the most susceptible to shame, is where we're the most susceptible to missing the mark in our reactions to protect ourselves. 

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That's why we have to be so honest with ourselves about our own areas of wounding. About our own areas of pain. About our own shaming messages and we have to do that work with such tenderness, with such gentleness, with such kindness. 

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It's a both/and. It's like surgery to the soul. And if you think about a surgeon, you think about a surgeon who goes into those delicate tissues in the heart. They go in with the finest of tools and they're so careful. A surgeon doesn't go in with a hammer. A surgeon goes in delicately, gently, with precision. 

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When you become a doctor of your own soul, it requires patience. It requires kindness, it requires gentleness. There's no room for shame. Shame would be like going in with more toxicity, to a place in your soul that's already been hurt. It doesn't work. 

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The path to freedom, to joy, to this life that God has for us, involves clarifying areas where we might miss the mark inside our own souls, and before God. It involves clarifying when sin does show up. When we do miss the mark. When we do go astray, veering off the path. But that work requires us to be gentle with ourselves. 

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It requires us to learn to set aside the shaming and condemning poison that often accompanies that word sin. And this is why in these last two episodes, I focus so much on this idea of building trust with yourself. 

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If you're going to be able to set healthy boundaries and forge healthy relationships with your kids, with your spouse, with your friends, with your small group, with a church community. You're going to have to learn to be tender and gentle with your own areas of wounding.

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Because, listen, other people are going to trip over your wounds. They're going to bruise you. They're going to hurt you. Even the best of people, the worst of people are sure going to do it. But even the best of people are going to do it, and this is where we're vulnerable. 

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We're vulnerable to hurt and we're vulnerable to missing the mark. We're vulnerable to acting out to protect ourselves in ways that miss the mark. And here's what's so delicate about this conversation, and I want you to hear me say this. 

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I'm not saying you don't get to protect yourself where you're vulnerable, you do. But you've got to build that trust inside of yourself so that you know, exactly, what you need. So that when you do carve out that path in front of you where you are shielding yourself from harm.

From toxicity, from poison, from even the best of people who will hurt you, you are doing so from a spirit-led authentic place.

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You're not weaponizing boundaries. You're not lashing out. You're not punishing. You're not retaliating. You're not putting more toxicity into a toxic situation. Instead, you are tending to yourself with care and compassion. And, as a result, you'll no longer put yourself in harm's way. 

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I want to now touch on this idea called the other side of sin. And this is a book I read years ago in graduate school, it rocked my world. It's called The Other Side of Sin: Woundedness from the Perspective of the Sinned-Against. It's edited by Andrew Sung Park and Susan L. Nelson. And I want to read a quote from the introduction. It says this, "Demanding repentance of sin from the abused, the hungry, and the humiliated is not good news but absurd news."

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And I want you to hear this, especially, if you're someone who's been abused, marginalized, oppressed, shoved aside, in any of these big T trauma ways. So many stories in the Bible, show us how God moves toward those who have been the sin against. 

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And, so, this is another angle on the conversation on sin that we've got to be really careful about. I do a lot of work with folks in recovery programs. Many of these folks having come out of prison. And when you hear back stories behind people's addictions, even their crimes, you begin to understand, very quickly, why they turned to these behaviors. There's a reason. 

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There's a reason why parts of us do whatever they can do to survive. And we've got to be, really, careful, even if we're naming something as missing the mark. That we not serve that up with a side of shame. 

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Now, listen, we're still responsible. We still have to take responsibility for our own lives. For our own woundedness, for our own traumas, for our own healing. We have to take responsibility. But remember that we do not heal in the context of self-shame, self-criticism, self-judgment. Nor do we heal in the context of others shaming us, others judging us, others criticizing us. We heal in the context of compassion. 

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Finally, I want to touch on this note of repentance. Another big, gozy, churchy word. Repentance, simply means to turn away from. We repent from sin, meaning we turn away from missing the mark. We turn away from that detour on the path. 

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But here's the question, if we're turning away from something, what are we turning toward? We're turning away from, maybe, old ways of coping. Old ways of surviving. Old ways of getting by. Old ways of making it through the day. 

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We're turning away from that, sure, but what are we turning toward? 

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We're not turning towards shame. We're turning toward the work of healing. It's turning away from shame. It's turning away from the ways we've learned to cope, from those fight/flight responses that have been so embedded in our nervous systems. 

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It's turning away from the ways we learned to get love, to seek approval in other people. It's turning away from the ways we learn to numb, to shut ourselves down. It's turning away from the ways we've rejected those tender parts of us, that need our love the most. 

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Turning away from missing the mark is not turning towards shame, it's turning toward the work of healing. It's turning toward those wounds that are underneath all of those behaviors. So we have to be careful about these words that we use. This word sin, especially, when we're talking about those who've also been sinned against. Which is, in some ways, a little bit of all of us. We've all missed the mark and we've all been wounded.

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So we have to be careful about this word sin. Especially, when we consider this idea of the sinned against, which is a little bit of all of us. 

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We've all sinned. We've all missed the mark, we've hurt other people, and guess what? We've all been sinned against. We've all been hurt. We've been wounded. And this is why I think when Paul talks about it Romans 2:4. He says, "It's God's kindness that leads to repentance." It's God's kindness that leads us to turn away from missing the mark and toward the work of healing. 

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Now, at the beginning of this episode, I posed this question; am I wounded or am I a sinner? 

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Am I someone who's been wounded in need of healing or am I a sinner in need of repentance? 

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And the answer is both. We are both wounded. We've been hurt. We need to heal, we need to face those areas where we have pain. 

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And, guess what, we also all miss the mark. We go toward reacting, responding, moving toward things that miss the mark. That are not toward the best God has for us. 

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We've all been hurt by others and, at times, we will all hurt others. This is so important to face in ourselves, honestly, it's both/and. But here's the thing, in order, to face ourselves, honestly, both our areas of woundedness and the areas where we miss the mark. We have to learn how to build trust with our self. We have to learn to face ourselves, honestly, without shame. 

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And this is what I wish we heard more about in faith communities, "You are not bad."

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"You are not a mistake."

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"God called you good, beautiful, well-made." Before sin entered in. Before shame started to sneak in with its messages.

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You have to learn to recognize how beloved you are, how beautiful you are to God. How tender God is with your areas of woundedness, and with those areas where you have missed the mark. That's the foundation from which we can all begin to heal. We can all begin to participate in God's work of healing. 

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I want you to consider, for just a minute, the story of Peter denying Jesus in Luke chapter 22. Peter had sworn his allegiance to Jesus. But the minute Peter grew frightened, the minute people asked him, questioned him. People who he perceived to be dangerous said to him, "Do you know Jesus? Were you with Jesus?"

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He went in, my guess is, to some sort of fight/flight/freeze/fawn response. His nervous system got the best of him. He was frightened and he immediately said, "No, I don't know him. I wasn't with him." He betrayed his friend, he lied. And, as a result of that, yes, he missed the mark. He betrayed his friend and then he wept, when he realized it. 

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He felt the pain of what he had done. He faced it. He faced the pain of what he'd done. Of course, he was frightened. It was dangerous. It was a dangerous situation. We can put ourselves in his shoes and empathize and understand, what Peter did in that moment and why he did it. Those guys were scary. They had power over him. 

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So two things were true, he was terrified and he missed the mark. And here's the thing, how does Jesus respond to Peter when he reconciles with him in John 21, he asks him a question, "Do you love me, Peter?"

‍

He asks it again, "Do you love me." A third time. 

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"Do you love me?" 

‍

He's pushing into Peter. He's pushing into that bruise just a little bit. He knows what happens, he's not bypassing the reality of what Peter did. But then what does he say to Peter as they reconnect?

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"Feed my sheep, Peter." He gives him a job to do. He honors him, He respects him. He doesn't shame him, there's no condemnation. There's reconnection and that's how we heal. That's how we turn away from missing the mark, and we turn toward the work of becoming the best of who we are.

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< Music >

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So what do we do? What's our practical takeaway, today?

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When you feel activated, hurt, disappointed or angry, these are all feelings that tempt us to want to miss the mark. These are all feelings that can ignite our fight/flight/freeze and fawn responses. 

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These are all feelings that can ignite shame, we want to get out of that hurtful situation. We might even be tempted to weaponize a boundary, when we're in that place. Which means we might want to punish someone. Retaliate, take justice into our own hands, or hurt ourselves, punish ourselves, or turn away from the healing God has for us. 

‍

When you feel that way, I want you to begin to think about what would it mean to turn away from that instant reaction? Take a pause and ask yourself; what am I turning toward? 

‍

I want turn toward the work of healing. I've got a pause. I've got to take that U-turn we talked about in last week's episode. I've got to notice those protectors, those coping strategies, those parts of me that want to go for it. That want to fight, that want to freeze, that want to fawn.

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I've got to notice them inside my myself first. I've got a journal about them. I've got to name them to a friend without shame. I've got to get curious about those protectors because underneath is a wound, is a tenderness, is a vulnerability, and I've got to get there first. 

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Not so that I can let that other person off the hook. But so that I can begin to grow in, truly, getting myself the good things, the true help, the true healing, the nourishment that I need. We tend to get hurt and we tend to get hooked where we have wounds. 

‍

So these are invitations to get curious, to take that U-turn and get curious about our own wounds, about our own areas of pain. This allows us to grow in caring and nurturing ourselves deep inside. This is how we build trust with ourselves. This is how we learn to establish healthy guardrails. Healthy boundaries from a calm, clear, brave place. 

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We don't want to stay stuck in the toxic cycle. We don't want to meet toxicity with toxicity. The goal is to tend to that vulnerable part of us deep within because when that part of us is well cared for. We will have the strength, the courage, the clarity, and the conviction to advocate for what we need from the people in our lives. 

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We'll have assessed the situation. We will know how to honor ourselves and advocate for ourselves in a way that is wise, and that's the path to freedom. That's the path toward this brave and beautiful life that God wants for each and every one of us.

EP –
22
Inner Healing
How to Build Trust with Yourself

On this week's podcast we're talking all about building trust with yourself. This *internal* work is so important to the work of setting healthy external boundaries. I share with you an example from my own life and walk you through a process of connecting more deeply to what's actually happening inside of you. As you connect more deeply to yourself, the boundaries you set with others will flow from a calmer, clearer place within.

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Here's what we cover:

1. A promise I made to myself and how it went

2. What to do when you're activated by someone or something

3. The importance of understanding your own areas of wounding

4. What is a You-Turn?

5. Meeting & honoring the protective parts of you (before acting out of them)

6. How to get to the root of your own hurt (before taking action)

7. Learning to find your voice from that place of clarity deep within

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Resources

Thanks to our sponsor Organifi -Go to www.organifi.com/bestofyou and use code BESTOFYOU for 20% off your order today!

Thanks to our sponsor BetterHelp -Go to www.betterhelp.com/bestofyou and use code BESTOFYOU for 10% off your first month!

While Dr. Cook is a counselor, the content of this podcast and any of the products provided by Dr. Cook are not specific counseling advice nor are they a substitute for individual counseling. The content and products provided on this podcast are for informational purposes only.

‍

Transcript

‍

Alison: Hey everyone, I'm so glad you're here for today's episode of the Best of You podcast. Thank you so much for your comments, reviews, and the feedback you've been giving me. I so appreciate hearing from you, and I'm so curious to hear how it went for you as you made and kept a promise to yourself last week.

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I promised that I would follow up on you, and here I am making good on my promise to you. What did you notice? 

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What surprised you? 

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Were you able to keep the promise? 

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What would you change about the promise? 

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So I made a promise to myself, and the promise that I made to myself was related to someone I'm struggling with, where I'm noticing activation. And what I promised myself was to journal about that every day over the week, and I did. 

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I still haven't arrived at the action that I'm going to take, but I do notice a little relief inside. Because I gave myself permission to journal about the situation.

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I didn't want to act out of impulse, out of anger, out of, even, hurt. And I gained a little more clarity just through the process of journaling. That taking that time, not just taking time to shove it aside or numb it, but taking the time to journal about it. To check in with myself, to think through it from different angles:

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"What was, maybe, this other person thinking?"

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"What maybe was my blind spot in it?"

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"Was there anything that I missed? Oh, but even if I did, I'm still hurt."

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So all of those things that took me a week. Just a week of journaling about an incident. I still don't have clarity. I'm still not exactly sure how to proceed in the situation. But I kept a promise to myself that I wasn't just going to brush it under the carpet. That I, also, wasn't going to act out of impulse. I'll keep you posted, but that was what I did this week. 

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So I want to just give you that example. Sometimes keeping a promise to yourself doesn't, immediately, magically, solve all of your life's problems. But it does get you a little bit of that self-trust we talked about last week. You start to trust yourself.

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I do trust myself in this situation. I will know what to do when it's time to do it, and right now I'm in the process of building trust with myself. Again, I'm not going to brush it under the carpet. I'm also not going to act impulsively, or angrily, or rashly. I'm going to give it time. I'm going to consider all the different parts of me. 

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I'm going to consider the situation, so that when I do act, when I do speak up on behalf of myself, it will be from a place of clarity. I will have built trust with myself. So on your own journey, I will be curious to know what is the promise you made to yourself? 

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And check in with yourself after a week and just notice. What do you notice? 

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What surprised you? 

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Are there any tweaks that you want to make? Or do you want to just keep doing that same thing for another week?

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So, in my case, this promise that I made to myself, I'd been hurt by someone. I'd been disappointed by someone, and I ended up asking myself over the week, "Did I do anything wrong in this situation?"

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Because it was complicated. I had a lot of emotions around it. I was very angry, I was very hurt, I was very disappointed. But I kept circling back to, "Did I do anything wrong?" And that's a pretty normal thing for most of us, "Did I do something wrong?" Now, here's the thing, if we haven't noticed. If we haven't done the work to bear witness to our own areas of woundedness, it's really hard to get honest about that question.

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And, so, I wanted to examine myself. I didn't want to take the other person off the hook, I want to be clear here. I was very clear that I was disappointed, but I had enough trust with myself that I could hold two things true. 

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One, is I'm, really, disappointed and I am not going to put myself in harm's way anymore, that was true. And because I trusted myself that I wasn't going to put myself in harm's way anymore. It opened up a part of me to say, "Is there anything I need to look at in myself, in this situation?"

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And, so, I went back and reviewed the facts from that angle. Again, not letting the other person off the hook, not exposing myself to more harm. I didn't do this with the other person, inside myself. 

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So I still felt hurt. I still felt disappointed, but I did become aware of the fact, "Oh, my goodness, this trampled on a wound that I've had for a very long time." And I began to realize it's possible that this other person's actions were either not intentional or if they were intentional, they didn't know that this is an area of deep wounding for me. 

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So two things were true. I was both hurt, disappointed, angry, and I became aware of that familiar old area of wounding in my own life. That's why I needed time. That's why I needed to journal. That's why I needed to get clarity. Because I was aware there was an activation inside of me that was bigger than the actual violation. The activation was bigger than the violation. 

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And, so, while I want to speak up for myself. While I want to set a healthy boundary, which we're going to circle back to at the end of this podcast episode. I could tell that I, also, first, needed to tend this area of woundedness that goes way back. Goes way back before I ever met this person, and there's no way they have any idea about this wound. 

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So, again, that's not to minimize the hurt. That's not to minimize the disappointment that I felt, but it did help me to build trust with myself. I could look at myself and say, "Oh, I had a big, capital B, reaction to a minor offense."

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I could look at it more objectively. There was an offense, but it wasn't a egregious offense. And that's going to change how I speak up on behalf of myself, how I end up setting a boundary.

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So I want you to hear me say that when you have a big reaction. When you have a big hurt, when you have big anger. When you have big resentment, that may well be valid, and you may have been hurt by someone else. 

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So I want you to hold two things to be true. But I also want you to learn how to look inwardly at our own areas of wounding, because that's where we're the most susceptible to pain, to shame, and to act out in a way that isn't in our best interest.

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In this work of establishing healthy boundaries in our external life. We have to go so deep inside ourselves. Because when we've been hurt, when we've been violated, when there's been an offense against us, we always have to really get honest with ourselves, 

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"Did this person do something wrong?" And, in many cases, they did. A lot of times we're activated because something, indeed, wrong happened. 

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"Did they do something wrong?"

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"What was the wrong thing they did?" And, also, "What is the wound inside of me that, that tripped over?"

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"What is that bruise, that unhealed bruise, that they just pushed on?" 

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Whether intentionally or unintentionally, we need to hold both of those things intentions. Sometimes they did something wrong and, inadvertently, tripped over an old wound. Sometimes, every once in a while, when you do this work, you realize, "I don't think they did something wrong."

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"I think they disappointed me, I think that that hurt, but I, actually, don't think they did something wrong. I think an old wound was tapped inside of me." That takes a lot of courage and a lot of self-trust. To go, "Oh, my gosh, did that hurt? And I don't, actually, think they did something wrong."

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Sometimes that's the case. Sometimes that's what we'll find. We have to do that internal work to know the difference. 

‍

Now, a word from our sponsor, BetterHelp. I don't think I've recorded an episode of this podcast, without encouraging you to seek the support of a therapist. And one of the questions I get asked, the most often, is, "How do I find one? They're too expensive."

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Or "Where do I find one in my region?"

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Or "How do I find one who can fit into these hours?" 

‍

It can be really overwhelming to try to find a therapist. And I think we all need the support of a therapist from time to time. And that's why I am so happy, today, to talk to you about BetterHelp. If you are thinking of giving therapy a try, BetterHelp is a great option. It's convenient, accessible, it's affordable, and it's entirely online, so it meets your needs. 

‍

You'll get matched with a therapist after filling out a brief survey, and you can switch therapists at any time. You get to go to that therapist and see if it's a fit, and if it's not, you can switch with BetterHelp. They'll find you someone who's a better fit for you. 

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So when you want to be a better problem solver, therapy can get you there. Visit betterhelp.com/bestofyou, today, to get 10% off your first month. That's better-h-e-l-p.com/bestofyou. 

‍

So let's talk about how to do this work of building trust with yourself. Now, in my first book, with Kim Miller, we talk about this idea of taking a U-turn. So when something on the outside of you activates you or triggers pain, hurt, anger, frustration, envy, any of these things on the inside of you. This idea of taking a U-turn is, to first, look inside yourself, and that's what I did last week. 

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So I made a promise to myself, "I'm activated. I want to go through a process of looking inside myself. Because that's how I'm going to build trust with myself." And it's tempting when we're feeling really activated, we want to immediately go to, "How do I set the boundary?"

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But if we don't, first, do that work of looking inside, of examining our own souls, we may not set the appropriate boundary. We may not set the boundary in the best way. It takes some internal work to get to that external outcome.

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What I'm describing here is a little bit of what Jesus, I think, was getting at. When he challenged the crowd in the Sermon on the Mount to work on their own selves first. It doesn't mean letting the other people off the hook. But what He said was, "First, take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye." Matthew 7:5.

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There's a charge in here, not to just let everybody off the hook, not to be a doormat. But to get to know your own heart. To get to know your own self. When you're feeling angry, what else is going on inside of you? 

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Is there a wound inside of you? If so, it needs to be drawn in closer so you can give yourself the care you need. And from that place, then determine how to set the healthy boundary outside of you.

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And think about it, when you're parenting a young child. When that child has been hurt, you're not dismissing the hurt. But imagine if your own child were to come to you, and they've been hurt on the playground. Someone has done something to hurt them. And your first reaction might be, "I'm going to go after that kid. I'm going to tell that kid, 'You better not mess with you.'"

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But when you do that, your own child is still hurting. You've bypassed the work of caring for, and comforting, and soothing your own child, and getting to know what do they actually need? 

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Do they need you to go stand up to that bully on their behalf, or do they need you to empower them? Or do they need you simply to comfort them? You've got to, first, tend to the hurting child. Then determine what course of action you will take.

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And it's the same inside your own soul. You first have to access the hurting part of you, get to know it, understand what do you need, and then determine the external boundary you might set. So when you do this work, of looking inside, you start journaling. Most likely, most of us, the first voices we bump up against. The first voices that need expression, come from protective parts of us. 

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These are the parts of us that are angry. These are the parts of us that want to blame. These are the parts of us that want to rush to justice, take justice maybe into our own hands. On the other hand, these are also, sometimes voices inside of us that try to talk us down. 

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That try to tell us, "You shouldn't feel this way."

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"You should just get over it."

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"You should just turn the other cheek."

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Sometimes we have these quote-unquote religious voices that try to protect us, by telling us, "Not to worry about it."

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"Not to think about it."

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"We shouldn't feel that way."

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"We should only think the best of the other person."

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These are all voices of protectiveness. These are parts of us, they're trying to help, they're trying to keep us safe. But they're ways that we've learned, from long ago, when we're hurt, to keep us safe. That's why we call them protectors. 

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Now, these protectors might show up as ego. They might show up as, "We can't let anybody see that we feel this way." That's a self-protective voice.

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Or, "We just need to earn their approval, that's just what we'll have to do. We'll have to just work harder to get them to like us, to get their approval, even though they've treated us poorly." These are all the voices of ego, of protection. 

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Again, there's no shame in these voices. But you want to pay attention to them, and you want to do what psychologists call differentiate from them. Notice them, give voice to them, write them down in a journal, maybe, tell a safe person.

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But remember these protective parts of you only see one angle of this story. So we want them to be seen, we want them to be heard, and then we want to say, "Is there more? What else is going on here?" And that's when we get to the tender voice inside of us. The tender parts of us. The parts of us that are hurting. 

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Now, again, imagine that child, imagine your child. At first, they're just mad, "That person is a jerk, I hate that person. I never want to be around that person again. I can't go back to school." That's all that protective energy that we carry with us into adulthood. 

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But when you really get down to the root, you get to that tender voice. And that tender voice is saying, "I'm hurt."

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"I feel unseen."

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"I feel misunderstood."

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"I feel so frustrated by their silence."

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"I feel discounted, like I don't matter."

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"I feel lonely."

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"I feel angry." We're getting to the root, when we get to those, "I feel" statements. Instead of, "They are" or "You should".

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Those are the voices of protectors. That's when we're in self-protection mode. Again, there's nothing wrong with those voices, they're there for reason. But they are masking that deeper voice, that deeper, "I feel". 

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"What is the wound inside of me?"

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"What is the hurt?"

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"What is the root of that hurt?"

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"I feel misunderstood."

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"I feel discounted."

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"I feel angry."

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"I feel hurt."

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"I feel invisible."

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This can be, really, hard to honor inside of ourselves. But it's so important because that's the impact of the wound, and this is where we get into our own areas of wounding. Often, when we're hurt, we go back to one or two of those same feelings. Because we've got these embedded memories inside our bodies. Inside our nervous systems of, "Urgh! I feel discounted. I'm so tired of feeling that way."

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And it's so important because we got to get to the wound so that we can give ourselves the care that we need.

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< Music >

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Finally, it's, really, important to once you've listened to the voice of your protectors. The voices that want to go out and get the job done, and then the voices of the hurting parts of you.

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Once you are able to get to the root of that, then you want to come back up to the facts of the situation. And I talk about this in chapter six of the Best of You, where I talk about how our feelings. How we're feeling about something. We, always, want to hold those in tension with the facts of a situation: 

‍

"What, actually, happened?"

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"What did that person, actually, say?"

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"What did they, actually, do?"

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"Did they, actually, do something wrong?"

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"Were they just being human, and in their humanness I got hurt?"

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And we want to hold these things in tension. We don't want to discount the way that we felt, we, also, don't want to discount the facts, both matter. Feelings make us human, they are important, and even if we determine in our self-examination, in our U-turn, that maybe the other person didn't do something wrong. Or maybe they just had a blind spot to a tender part of us. 

‍

We can still advocate for ourselves, but we're going to do it in a different way. Maybe upon self-examination, we realize, "Oh, my gosh, that person, really, hurt me. They did something, really, wrong and I'm going to have to figure out a way to stop that. Because I can't expose myself to hurt any longer."

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Again, it's no longer about that other person. It's, "I cannot expose this tender part of me to this kind of hurt, whether they intended it or not." And this is how we do this work of building trust with ourselves. 

‍

We get to know the different parts of our own soul. The protective parts of us and the vulnerable parts of us, and we start to see it all, really, clearly, and that's how we begin to understand how we're going to go back into this relationship with a strong, clear, voice.

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This is where we get to what I call transformational truth. Transformational truth factors in how we feel. Where we're wounded, where we need to be protecting ourselves in healthy ways. It also factors in the facts of a situation, as objectively as we can be, and it also brings in our faith. What does God have to say about this, discernment?

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What is the best way, for me, to proceed here? Honoring how I feel. Honoring what I believe to be the facts of the situation, and then saying, "God, how do you want me to proceed?" Building trust with yourself is a practice. It's a whole new way of being. It's learning to honor the contents of your own soul, your emotions, your body, in partnership with God's Spirit. 

‍

So that when you do speak up, your voice flows from a connected, authentic place, deep inside. You're no longer being a doormat nor are you moving to the other extreme, of just lashing out at everybody. 

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Instead, you fine-tune this beautiful instrument God has given you, deep inside, this voice starts to come out of you. This voice that is connected to your areas of pain, that is connected to your fire. This voice that, increasingly, knows what to say and how to say it. It might even come out of you when you least expect it. 

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This voice, as you build trust with yourself, begins to move from deep within who you are. This work that you've done to make and keep promises to yourself. And it moves into the world around you and says, "Here I am, I have a perspective that matters. I have something I need to say, I want you to hear me. But even if you don't, my voice is here to stay."

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It's the place where the truth, of what you've experienced, comes together with the truth of who God is. This is a strong place deep inside from which you begin to shape the world around you. Instead of reacting in a moment or, again, rolling over, brushing it under the carpet, being a doormat, you start to show up authentically. You start to respond. You're connected. You are real. You are living from the inside out. 

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Who you are on the inside starts to show up in your relationships with other people. You live out of a confidence. You're living from the deepest, truest part of yourself. 

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So this process of building trust, with yourself, is a process of learning to hold your ear close to the ground of your own life. It's listening for that voice of ego. Those protective parts of you that want to shame you, that want to should you, that want to lash out at other people. It's gently redirecting that voice, letting her be heard, letting her have her say in your journal with your safe person, letting her feel heard.

But it's also saying, "I need you to step back so that I can get to that tender voice inside that's hurting. Both of you get to be here, but I need to do the work of listening well. Listening to the anger and listening to the parts of me, that go way back to these wounded places inside where I felt so invisible, so unseen, so hurt, so cast aside, and I'm going to attend to both of those parts of me." 

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I'm going to attend to both of those parts of me from the place where the Holy Spirit lives within me, deep inside. I can hold together in truth what I feel, and then with God's help, I can reexamine that situation from a place of having cared for myself first. And asked myself, "What is it I, actually, need?"

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"What do I need in this situation? Do I need to mostly care for myself and inhibit my interactions with that other person?" 

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Or, "Do I need to speak up on behalf of this hurt I've experienced?"

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You start to build trust with yourself and you will start to know what you need. And all this work that you're doing to make and keep promises to yourself, to building trust with yourself, to listening to these different parts of you. Even the parts of you, you don't always like, but giving them a voice, giving them a seat at the table. 

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All this internal work you're doing to get to know these different parts of you, is how you begin to build and establish not only the kind of boundaries that you want with other people. But, more importantly, it's how you begin to build the life that you want. The life that is a reflection of the person God made you to be. 

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You will start living from within. You will start taking charge of the driver's seat of your own life. It's a beautiful way to live. It's confidence, it's clarity, it's purpose, it's conviction. It's not being perfect, but it's stepping into the driver's seat of your own life.

EP –
21
Inner Healing
Making and Keeping A Promise to Yourself

Today on The Best of You podcast, we're starting a new series on Boundaries and the Bible. And we're starting with what I call the Yes Side of No. So many of us struggle with setting external boundaries because we keep the focus on the other person. But the work of setting boundaries starts inside of you. In today's episode, I walk you through how to build to trust with yourself from the inside out.

‍

Here's what we cover:

1. Why I don't believe boundaries start with No

2. Can I really learn to trust myself?

3. What about sin?

4. What is an internal (vs. external) locus of control and why does it matter?

5. Examples of promises you can make to parts of you carrying pain

6. Examples of promises you can make to your body

7. A challenge to you that we'll circle back to next week.

‍

Resources

Thanks to our sponsor Organifi -Go to www.organifi.com/bestofyou and use code BESTOFYOU for 20% off your order today!

While Dr. Cook is a counselor, the content of this podcast and any of the products provided by Dr. Cook are not specific counseling advice nor are they a substitute for individual counseling. The content and products provided on this podcast are for informational purposes only.

‍

Transcript

Alison: Hey everyone, welcome back to The Best of You podcast. We are on episode 21. It's hard to believe there's been 21 of these episodes, and I want to move into a new series I'm calling Boundaries and the Bible. And what I'm going to do, over the next six weeks, is take you on a deep dive into many of the topics that I touch on in my new book, The Best of You. 

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So for those of you who've already purchased the book, we're going to go deeper. I'm going to start with some of the questions I'm seeing the most, frequently from you, related to the book. If you don't have the book, yet, get a copy. 

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You can get it on Audible, you can get an eBook, you can get it in hardcopy because this is sort of our masterclass. We're going to work our way through it together on a deeper level. With weekly takeaways, weekly homework assignments for you to apply in your day-to-day life. 

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I've been so grateful to hear from so many of you about what this book has meant to you. And it just strengthens my resolve to want to speak, especially, to women, I know this applies to men, too. But, especially, to women who have felt hidden, invisible, like you don't have a say in your own life. And maybe you even thought you were doing that, that was the right thing to do. 

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You thought you were dying to yourself. When in fact it's possible you've been dying to God-given aspects of who you are. 

So over these next few weeks, I want to help you in this work of reclaiming beautiful parts of yourself. That God made, that God loves, and that God wants to call into being, that God wants to bring into this world. So that you can show up as the very best of who you are. So we're going to get granular in these next few weeks. 

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So, today, we're going to start with what I call the YES side of NO. And it's the key that I believe is at the root of being able to set boundaries with other people. And it's starting back at the internal work of reconnecting to yourself. Learning to trust yourself and that starts with learning to make a promise to yourself. 

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It's very challenging to set healthy boundaries, externally, with other people. If you haven't paused and checked in with yourself, and taken inventory and figured out, "What is the promise I have to make to myself?"

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"What is the, YES, I need to say to a part of myself? So that I have the courage to do this hard thing. This brave thing in my external life, in my external relationships." 

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So we're going to get into the external boundaries toward the end of this series. But we're going to start from the inside out. Because so many of us struggle with setting healthy boundaries, externally, because we keep the focus on the other person. 

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But that's, exactly, what we've been taught to do is keep the focus on the other person. We look for permission. We want them to understand. We sort of want them to validate our boundaries. So if we haven't done this internal work, first, recognizing that it starts within us. It's very challenging to set those healthy boundaries with other people. 

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I call this starting with YES. It's the YES side of NO, and it's what I mean by this word, selfhood. Selfhood, this is the word from psychology that I unpack in chapter one of The Best of You. Selfhood is not being selfish. It's not saying, "It's all about me. I'm no longer going to listen to other people, or help other people, or love sacrificially." That's not what selfhood is. 

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Selfhood is not selfishness but it's also not being a doormat. It's also not saying, "I don't matter. My voice doesn't have a say. I'll just shove myself aside." That is not the example that we see in the life of Jesus.

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We see in the life of Jesus an example of selfhood. Of a life, wholly, surrendered to God, and, therefore, equipped and empowered to make a difference, to make an impact in the lives of other people and in the world. 

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We can't do that, it's very hard to empower others to live boldly, to live courageously. To make a difference in our kids' lives, in our friends lives, in our communities lives, if we have not connected and are living, bravely, from our God-given selves. 

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So for just a second, before we get into the brass tacks here. I want you to imagine being so rooted in your God-given self, that you simply cannot tolerate a fool or a bully. 

You see their tricks a mile away, and you know how to stand firm in your power. With God's help, you are a force to be reckoned with. Your boundaries are no longer focused on other people. Instead, they flow from a strength you've built from deep within. 

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This is what it looks like to start with Yes. Starting with YES, this yes side of NO, focuses the work on strengthening your own soul. Which includes healing areas of woundedness, healing messages you've digested that tell you it's wrong to focus on your own work of healing. 

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It means establishing a genuine support network. People who genuinely want your best and want to see you putting your truest, deepest, God given-self into the world. It means clarifying your convictions. What matters to you, instead of spinning around like a top trying to please everybody else. 

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It means learning the skills that you need when other people show up with their toxic behaviors. And we're going to get into the skills in this whole series. It means getting a larger vision of the life you want to move toward. So that when it's time to say, NO, when the distractors and detractors come at you, you're ready. Because you know what you want out of this life God has given you. 

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So part of this starts with the work of healing wounds from the past. Because these wounds from the past that tell us, "We're not worth more. There's shame."

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They tell us, "What we want is bad."

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They tell us that, "It's too late."

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"We're too old."

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"There's too much water under that bridge."

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These are wounds from the past, and, so, we've got to deal with these. Sometimes we have to look back to look forward. But we've got to do two things at the same time. One is hold up the hope of the vision of what's yet to come. And the second is go back to those wounded areas in our lives that keep us stuck, and keep us from relating, and keep us from moving toward that vision. 

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And, so, the metaphor that I like to use, and I apologize to those of you who are not hikers, I'm a big hiker, so I use this over and over. It's like you need to see that vision of that peak that you're moving toward, that destination, where there's a clear view.

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Because guess what you see that vision and it keeps you moving forward. But then you're going to move into the hard stuff, almost immediately, you're going to get into the valley. You're going to get into the forest where it's hard to see, and you'll feel lost, and you'll feel scared, and you're like, "I can't do this, I want to go back."

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And, so, I want you to, with me, hold that vision of where you want to be. That clarity of being so anchored in yourself that no one can knock you off. No one can distract you from that larger vision you've created with God. And, also, we're going to get into the weeds where it's going to be hard. And, so, we've got to learn to take that one brave step at a time. 

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So where we're going to start, today, is with this question; Can I really trust myself? 

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There's a reason so many of us don't do the hard work of looking inward, of identifying that YES, side of NO. That, YES, we need to say to parts of ourselves that have been wounded. 

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We've been taught not to trust ourselves. We've been taught to bypass our own desires, our own God-given instincts, the inner resources God has given us. Trust is this loaded word we toss around without really understanding what it means. 

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In the dictionary, we look at trust simply defined as, "A belief in the reliability, truth, capability, or strength of someone or something." So we tend to believe that God is trustworthy. We know that God is reliable, truthful, capable and strong. We rely on that to be true of God, and it is true of God. 

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Some of us have encountered trust worthiness, trustworthy qualities, in other people. We fundamentally see consistent patterns of reliability, honesty, capability, and strength over time. People have proven themselves to us, so we trust them. 

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But so many of us have no clue what it means to trust ourselves. In fact, many of us have been taught not to trust ourselves. Many of you may have been taught to distrust yourself. Based on a specific Bible verse that says, "The human heart is the most deceitful of all things, and desperately wicked." This is from Jeremiah 17:9-10.

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But what most people fail to recognize is that the very same prophet who spoke of the tremendous deceitfulness in the human heart. And listen, we can deceive ourselves, and we're still going to get there, I promise you. To all of you asking me for the episode on trauma and sin, it's coming right around the corner. It might be next week, it might be in two weeks, I'm not sure which, but it's coming. I'm working on it right now. 

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But we can go astray, that's what sin means. Sin means miss the mark, we deceive ourselves, shame enters in. We start covering our tracks, and we start missing the mark even more. And we start setting off on a path that is away from our true selves and away from God. 

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So Jeremiah wasn't wrong. Jeremiah was seeing in his day, these are religious folks, in many ways, that Jeremiah was prophesying about. He's like, "Man, you're deceiving yourselves." And the human heart is capable of that, and I don't want to suggest otherwise. I know it to be true in my own heart and I know it to be true in this life. 

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However, Jeremiah is the very same prophet, who, also, prophesied the solution to this problem of our hearts that can lead us astray. And he talked about the coming of God's Spirit when he said, "I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts." This is from Jeremiah 31:33. 

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So what is Jeremiah alluding to here? Well, he's prophesying about the coming of the Holy Spirit. That in the past, during his time, the law, the code that kept you on the path of being true to yourself and to God, was external. 

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It was the Commandments. It was the code. But Jeremiah is saying something new is going to happen. God is going to write His law on our minds and write it in our hearts. This is through the power of God's Spirit. That had only been made available externally, up to then, is going to become available internally through the power of the Holy Spirit. And Jesus talks about this in John, chapter 14, He says, "I'm going to send you the Holy Spirit who will live in you."

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And this is an unbelievable reality because of the Spirit who lives inside of you. You have access. First of all, you have access to the goodness in you because when God created you, initially, He called you good before shame entered in, before sin entered in.

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So we hold these two truths side by side. There's goodness there and there is the capacity to go our own way. Both of those things live side by side. But through the power of God's Spirit, as we cultivate that space inside, where we bring all of who we are together with all of who God is, we can stay true. We can become trustworthy. We can honor a sense of reliability, honesty, capability, and strength in our own souls. 

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We can cultivate that trust in ourselves, not because we're perfect, not because we're not still able to deceive ourselves, but because we keep coming back to the work. We keep coming back to the work of going, "Dear God, I see. I see this part of me that is angry. I see this part of me that wants so desperately to go take this into my own hands. God, and you see that part of me too." And we begin to hold ourselves together in a spirit of truth. 

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There's so much to unpack here, and I'm going to stop there because we're going to get more and more, and deeper into the theology of that in weeks to come. 

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But through the power of the Holy Spirit that comes to live inside of us, we can learn to trust ourselves. It's a process. It's a practice. It's not a once-and-done kind of thing. It's a practice of bringing all of who you are into the presence of who God is.

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The Best of You Every Day offers short, daily reflections on Scripture through the lens of emotional health—helping you stay steady, connected, and rooted in love.

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