What Trusting God Really Looks Like When You Can’t Control the Outcome with Susie Larson
Episode Notes
What happens to your capacity to trust God when life has taught you to brace for disappointment?
You may still believe God is good. You may know the Scriptures and have walked with Him for years. And yet there can be places inside of you that still struggle to trust His goodness toward you.
This week, Dr. Alison is joined by bestselling author and radio host Susie Larson for an honest conversation about trauma, chronic illness, unanswered prayer, and what it means to keep trusting God when your circumstances remain painfully unresolved.
Drawing from her own experiences with childhood trauma, complicated pregnancies, chronic illness, financial strain, and seasons when God felt silent, Susie shares how she began moving from simply knowing she was saved to actually learning to live as someone deeply loved by God.
In this episode, you’ll learn:
- How trauma and disappointment can affect your ability to trust God
- The difference between knowing intellectually that God loves you and learning to live loved
- Why trusting God isn’t a formula for getting the outcome you want
- What Susie means by “contending” for what is true without slipping into striving
- The difference between expectation and expectancy
- Why trust can sometimes mean fighting for something and other times mean releasing control
- How fear and strong emotions can reveal beliefs beneath the surface
- Why you don’t have to wait until everything is resolved to begin living with purpose
- A simple practice for intentionally receiving and reflecting on God’s love
The invitation isn’t to figure out how to make God give you the ending you hoped for. It’s to become more deeply rooted in His love while the story is still being written.
Ready Susie Larson’s book More Than You Can Imagine: What God Does When You Trust Him
Listen to Susie Larson Live
More Resources:
Listeners get exclusive access to the first 3 chapters of Dr. Alison’s newest book, The Secure Soul.
Connect further with @dralisoncook on Instagram
📖 Find a full transcript and list of resources from this episode here
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TRANSCRIPT
I mean, I will tell you, I'm a walking miracle. My doctor said I should be dead, and I really think
that. You're going to have open loops of trauma. Those open loops are the very places the enemy
gets in to get you to question God. I would say you contend in the places you're getting attacked.
The devil sees your potential long before you ever do. His threat to you is very connected to your
threat to him. You just got to go back to your childhood and think of the first time you felt
afraid, you felt not enough. You know that you have a very real enemy. I mean, if you're going to
feel crummy, if you're going to struggle in your... going to struggle anyway. So why not bear some
fruit, move some mountains, and slay some demons while you're at it? I mean, just get a dream and
follow the Lord in it, right?
Hey, everyone, and welcome back to this week's Deep Dive episode of The Best of You. Today,
we're going to talk all about trust. And we're going to get into the nitty gritty of what trust
really looks like. The kind of trust that you have to wrestle for at times.
The kind of trust that's hard to come by when you've prayed for something and maybe the answer
hasn't come. Or the kind of trust when your body's been dealing with an illness or you've been
through something really frightening or something that might still be happening. It's the kind of
trust when someone has misunderstood you or a betrayal has happened. The kind of trust when you've
tried to be faithful and life still feels painfully.
unresolved at times. I hear all the time from people who are in situations just like these,
where you're doing your best. Maybe you're trying to even go to therapy and learn new skills and do
your part. And yet life is just really hard and you're not finding the answers that you seek.
And then we turn to this question, what does this mean about God.
I've been thinking a lot about this question lately. What happens to our capacity to trust God when
life has taught us to brace for disappointment? There's no doubt in my mind that those two things
affect each other. When life is hard, when things remain unresolved, whether in your finances,
in your health, in a relationship, influences our capacity to trust God.
Maybe you still believe God is good. Maybe you still study the scriptures, you know the right
verses. Maybe you've walked with God for years, but there may be places inside of you that don't
fully trust God's goodness toward you. One of the things I try to be intentional about,
especially on these deep dive episodes, is inviting guests on the podcast who help us see something
from an angle I may not naturally emphasize on my own. I spend a lot of my own time thinking about
the practices, the tools, the research, the science, the choices that are in our hands,
the things that we could do to help heal and grow and become stronger from the inside out.
And I believe so much. that work. But I also know there are places where our own effort reaches a
limit, places where faith asks us to reckon with mystery, surrender,
uncertainty, the spiritual realm, and what God may be doing beyond what we can see or control.
And it also may ask us to reckon with the reality that there is an enemy of our souls who's also at
work. around us. And this is one of the reasons I wanted to talk with my guest today, Susie Larson.
I've gotten to know Susie as a guest on her radio show over the past two years, and I find her very
curious and inquisitive and thoughtful. And I wanted to bring her on the podcast today to share
more from her own story. Susie is a bestselling author. She's a national speaker,
and she's the host of Susie Larson Live, which is a nationally syndicated radio show and podcast
that reaches millions of people. every week. She's written numerous books and she's known for
bringing deep biblical faith into honest conversations about suffering, fear, healing,
and hope. And she's got a brand new book out. It's called More Than You Can Imagine, What God Does
When You Trust Him. And Susie is someone who has had to wrestle with this question in an incredibly
personal way. She shares some of her story with us on the podcast, some childhood traumas,
as well as some painful experiences in her early 20s with complicated pregnancies,
long seasons of bed rest, financial strain, and a painful diagnosis that she still wrestles with to
this day. She doesn't come by this idea of trust. easily. She, to use her word,
has contended for it. And she's very clear that trusting God isn't a formula.
It's not a one size fits all. As she says in today's episode, trust can sometimes look like rising
up and fighting for something. Sometimes it looks like letting go. Sometimes it looks like resting
or waiting. And this is why knowing God, paying attention to God, attuning to God,
being with God matters. You have to know God's voice in order to discern what trust looks like in
your particular set of circumstances. As Susie illustrates for us in today's episode,
sometimes trusting God means standing up and setting a boundary. And sometimes trust looks like
almost the complete opposite. Sometimes it means releasing something you desperately want to
control or change or make happen. And that is really the heart of today's conversation.
It's not how do I get God to give me the outcome I want? It's how do I become a person who can
remain rooted in love? and trust even while so much of the story is still being written.
We talk about what trauma does to your ability to trust. We talk about the difference between
knowing intellectually that God loves you and actually learning to live as if you are loved.
We talk about what it means to wrestle each day for what is true without slipping into striving or
believing that you can somehow control the outcome. This is such a powerful conversation.
I'm thrilled to bring you my conversation with Susie Larson.
Suzy, I am so thrilled to have you on the podcast today. Thank you so much for being here and
sharing your story with us. Well, I appreciate your work, Allison. And it's always a joy to have
you on my show, which I know we've got you scheduled coming up soon. So congratulations on the
release of your book and how well it's doing. And thank you for having me. And thank you. And for
you too, it's fun to be in this with you. I was so excited because you've interviewed me a couple
of times. I always love our conversations. They always stick with me. You're so wise and
thoughtful. And so it's so fun to get to turn the tables and get to interview you and learn more
about your story. I would love, Susie, for you to just give my audience a sense of your background.
I've heard you describe. A couple of key moments in childhood that really stayed with you.
And then a couple of key moments when you were first married and as a young woman.
that kind of created this background for what you're speaking into with this new book.
Would you, just for my listener who's not yet familiar with your story, would you set that stage
for us a little bit? Absolutely. Honored to do that. And because it is context for why I talk the
way I talk, walk the way I walk, pray the way that I pray, because I've had to contend for things.
I've had to contend for the promises of God. And as everybody does, but I think if you just,
as you hear my context, you'll know where I'm coming from. So, you know, I was... in a large
family. I would say in a denomination, we went to church every Sunday. The Bible was...
you know, spoken about, but it wasn't, um, the gospel was really not preached. So I, I knew God was
real, but I say, I didn't know Jesus was accessible. I didn't know the gospel, but even as a child,
I sensed God's presence. I mean, I really did. I knew he was real. I was fifth of seven kids.
My dad was the mayor of our city. And so there was the sense that we, we should behave,
you know, and us girls, the four sisters, you know, we, we took the memo. My brothers, they didn't
get that memo so much. And, uh, but we're all very, very close now and God has done a deep, deep
redemptive work in our family. But back then when my mom needed to get a job to help put food on
the table, it was around that time that my brother started to hang with some pretty creepy friends
who were getting into things they ought not. And, uh, I didn't really like being in a two story
house, seven kids, friends coming and going. I didn't like being there. with those creepy friends
when my mom wasn't there. And I remember coming home from school one day and seeing their bikes out
in front and just got a pit in my stomach. Like I just, you know, I don't want to be here until my
mom comes home. So I thought I'll just go down in the laundry room, get my favorite sweatshirt, you
know, go up in my bedroom and read a book till mom comes home. And I'm literally down in the
laundry room with my hands in the dryer when I hear the door shut behind me. And I look back to see
four of my brother's friends. No brother, it was just these friends. And they were glaring at me
and I was trapped. And in a moment I was pinned to the floor. And I remember parts of it.
I don't remember how I got from hands in the dryer to pinned on the floor. But I remember walking
away from that experience. a totally different person. As you well know, it's like you have a
different nervous system when something like that happens. How old were you, Susie? I was nine. Oh
my gosh. Yeah. And it opened up like a canyon of insecurity for me. And our family,
our house backed up to a foster home. And my dad used to always say, love these people just don't
do what they do and I used to think I you know in my mind like oh they're just born that way you
know keeping making bad choices and like I didn't fault them I just thought you're born this way or
that way but when this happened to me because those boys would go hang with those girls and do the
things they did I started to really question was I Maybe I'm destined for that kind of a life,
you know, I mean, I was, and I've just had all this internal conflict, but I couldn't share it with
anybody. You didn't tell anybody? No, because my dad was a mayor and I, and these are my brother's
friends. And I just thought I'll bring scandal on the family. I just was so terrified of. what that
would unleash in our family because I was so aware that we are public. And so I stuffed it into the
basement of my soul, but I lived with so much conflict and so much fear inside about my own
identity. And when I was 10 years old, I still was only about four feet tall. I'm coming home from
school and I see those bikes out front and I literally say out loud, I don't care if God made me
this way. Those boys will never touch me again. And a different group of boys, I were hanging out
in a dugout and I just heard in my peripheral, get her. And they ran out of the dugout and they ran
me down and knocked me to the ground and beat me. And, uh, and I still remember the look in their
eyes. Like I do know now in my adult brain, they were high on something because they had this
crazed look and they were punching me in the face and pulling fistfuls of hair and kicking me in
the stomach. And it was just this, these boys. pummeling a little girl and I'm screaming and crying
and being jerked every which way. And it was so traumatic, Alison. And I've done a ton of work
around trauma healing, ton, ton, ton. But even to this day, if I see accidentally like a video of
someone being pummeled, it shoots a neurological surge through my body that I feel for a couple of
days. Like it's so demonic. It just is. I'm not, I'm not.
overstating that. I believe it is. It's just so evil. But I got up from that beating and I heard in
my ear, I can get to you anytime, anywhere, and God will never stop me. And I knew then that there
was a devil. you know, and that's when fear got in for me. And I got home and I was beaten.
And so my family comforted me and I put that comfort on that inner wound as well, you know, and
jump ahead. I, in a really beautiful way, God led me to himself when I was in about eighth grade, I
came to Christ, but I was still so broken. And I say, you know, then I knew I was saved, but I
didn't know I was loved. And so when I got into middle school, I was a decent athlete and I could
sing in the choir. And so I just used all those gifts that God gave me to. improve myself because I
just still was so broken and so insecure. So I was associated with the popular group because of my
physical ability, but I was so not a legitimate member because I had so much self-hatred and
insecurity. It's so interesting, Susie, you use this phrase. I've used this before or a similar
phrase. I pushed it into the bottom of my soul, the basement of my soul.
And it's so interesting as you're talking right now, it's like, and I want to tease this out as we
go, but
I hear what you're saying. Some good things then came in, a relationship with Jesus, some social,
and it touched a portion of your soul, but didn't get all the way to that basement of your soul
where that trauma had been pushed. It's just so real. Yeah, it is.
I often say when I'm speaking and telling this part of my story that the devil sees your potential
long before you ever do. And his threat to you is very connected to your threat to him. You just
got to go back to your childhood and think of the first time you felt afraid, you felt not enough.
You know that you have a very real enemy. And so for me, you know, I came to Christ and I'm
performing in middle school and even in high school, but I still was so broken. And you jump ahead
when as a young adult, as a Christian, finally released to run after Jesus. So I wanted to go to
the church that I wanted to go to and all of that. And I met my husband. Christian guy. And we got
pregnant on our honeymoon. surprise. And we were going to wait five years.
And the doctor said, actually, if you would have waited five years, you'd have no children because
I had a lot of abdominal pain during the pregnancy and turned out I had endometriosis. So they
said, you will have a hysterectomy in your twenties. So you need your babies right now. So I had
them one, two, three. And number two, I was on bed rest for three months because of an incompetent
cervix. Number three bit pregnancy, I was in bed rest for six months. Now come into marriage.
And how old were you at this time? I'm in my young twenties. Now I want you to think about this. I
was set free to run after Jesus. I was finally an adult. I could go to the church I wanted. I was
serving in five committees, you know, and part of that was passion, but part of it was I still had
something to earn or prove. So to go to bed rest for six months and have to call in every favor,
I can't even tell you the trauma that surfaced. And that's the thing is God will never leave you
broken. If you're following him, you're following a healer and he will allow the stuff. to surface.
So I, I, I'm trying to tell this as concisely as possible, but this is, you know,
so I'm on bed rest for six months and my friends are getting tired of me. I have a one and a three
-year-old and they're all taking turns watching them. And one of those boys is a strong-willed
child. So that was interesting, you know, uh, but people were bringing meals and they were getting
worn out. My husband was, I, it confronted all of the sense that I was a debt,
you know, and that I couldn't prove, I couldn't earn, I couldn't strive, I couldn't serve.
I just, and the Lord allowed that because it really showed me the cracks in my foundation. There
was probably three months into bed rest. I was six months along. The doctor said, you know, so
let's get you up to see if you're okay. Let's see if we can, you can manage being up and about
because it was strict bed rest. So I met my old college roommates. I live in the Midwest. It was a
fall day. We went for a very easy walk, had lunch, but it was too much. Went back to bed rest that
night and two weeks from that outing while still on bed rest. I pointed where my water bottle was
and the pins and needles shot out my arm. And then a base kind of a numbing,
buzzing feeling started at the base of my skull and crawled around to my whole face was pulsating
with numbness. And my vision started to move in. Yeah, a lot of really,
really scary symptoms crept up. And a friend was actually with me. She's like, what's the matter?
And I'm like, I don't know. Everything's going numb. And she was tired of me. So she said, you
know, if it's not one thing with you, it's another. And then she said, you know, I guess it's
personalities like yours that most often get MS, what she said. And so she left.
And I can't even tell you, Allison, the fear because I knew a woman from our church who had an
athletic event. I taught some fitness classes at our church and then I went down for this bed rest.
She was a runner, but she got diagnosed with MS and spiraled so fast. And this is what the enemy
does is gives you a visual of your worst case scenario to put fear into your heart. And so when she
left and I still have three months to go on this bed rest and I'm thinking that's my future. I've
called all in my friend, all my friend favors. They're all tired of me. This is my future. And God
just seemed so absent. And I came into marriage with so much passion and the heavens were silent.
The word in the Bible felt dead on the page and my face is going numb. And I just didn't know where
God was. And long story short, I delivered our son. And within that year. they ruled out MS,
they ruled out a brain tumor and they ruled in Lyme disease. And so that was three decades ago.
And to this day, I still deal with some neurosymptoms. It's been a long journey, but boy,
I mean, I will tell you, I'm a walking miracle. My doctor said I should be dead. And I really think
that, I mean, I've gone through some pretty deep, deep valleys with this battle,
but I, I'm not the same person and it's not been wasted on me. Yeah.
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So I just want to juxtapose this story you're telling us with the title of your new book,
which is More Than You Can Imagine, What God Does When You Trust Him. And for the listener who
feels like her story is too much, there's too much pain,
there's too much brokenness. You know, this is Susie what makes you so special in what you do
today. You talk about God. In such a beautiful way. And it's so real because I'm listening to you
thinking that's trauma stacked after trauma stacked after trauma with no time in between.
Right. You know, to really heal. None of that. You had the wound way down in the basement from the
trauma of being nine years old and assaulted. You've got, you know,
never mind the everyday wounds. Yeah. That we all come into with big family, middle child,
busy parents, you know, just the everyday stuff. Never mind the, you know, and again,
there's some good stuff in there that helps, but then never mind immediately getting pregnant,
immediately having difficult pregnancies, going into bed rest, and then a chronic illness, you
know, and I'm just kind of listing out losing friends. I know my, I know so many of my listeners
are, there's a way in which you feel seen. It's like, I, I'm not the only one.
Life is, it's just hard.
I just want to, that juxtaposition with this new book about more than you can imagine,
right? It doesn't mean what happened to you is okay. It is not. None of it is.
And I love that you so squarely call it evil. And you are someone who stands today in testament to
what God has done in your life. He's so good and he's so faithful and he's so patient and he's so
kind. And he is always writing a bigger story than we could possibly imagine. And I know this to be
true, that if you don't know the love of God, the devil will bait you into accusing God of things
that the devil is guilty of. We have a very real enemy. We do. And he's had our lives to study us.
And he's not threatened by us going through the Christian motions. of reading our Bible, checking a
box, singing the songs, checking the, he's not threatened by that. He's threatened of our
engagement. When we engage our hearts to say, this is hard, but my God will come through for me.
This is hard, but God is the strength of my heart. And I mean it. And the more that you see God
come through, the more you have him in your history, the more, you know, you've got a future with
him too. So I thank you for asking for backstory because you'll notice if you read my books or hear
my show, there's, there's a bit of a, a fight, you know, and I mean, like I'm contending,
I'm not going to put up with the stuff that the enemy throws my way. Even so you can't control
everything. There's not a formula to get life to work for you, but there is something to be said
about responding to the promises of God and of knowing the love of God and letting that love of God
change you. I would submit to you and I would be curious what you think about this, Alison, but as
someone who travels the country for women's conferences and been in media a long time, I'm
convinced there are lots of high level seasoned Christian leaders and pastors who have right
theology around salvation. They know they're saved. They don't know they're loved. And if you don't
know you're loved, you know what? You're going to have open loops of trauma. Everybody has trauma.
Those open loops are the very places the enemy gets in to get you to question God. And I think,
and the book is really so much about a number of things, but one of them is learning to live loved.
Because once you live from that place, you start to get a perspective that you otherwise wouldn't
have. Talk to me a little bit about some key moments early on that you began to bridge that gap of,
I know I'm saved. I don't know that I'm loved. When did you first begin to realize that?
And what were some early... steps that you took to begin to bridge that gap?
Wow. I love that question. So I've got a few in my mind, Lord, help me to remember all of them. One
of them was in the middle of the night. I mean, with Lyme, it would...
totally wipe out your short-term memory. And I mean, to be so young and have memory problems was
horrific for me. And with three little boys and not as many friends left and our medical debt
exceeded our income. So it was a dry and weary land. And God seemed so silent that I would just
throw these prayers up for healing. And it felt like they bounced off the ceiling. Like he changed
his mind about me, or I was a have not, or they're substandard Christians. I just could not, I was
still young enough in my faith. I couldn't. figure out what he was up to. And one night I'm like,
God, if not for me, for my boys, heal me for them. They need a mom. You know, I'm just so stuck in
bed and this is such a lopsided family because of this illness. I just, I hated it more than I can
possibly tell you. And the Lord just thundered through the silence and said, if I healed you,
would you praise? me. And I said, you wouldn't be able to shut me up. I'd praise you till the cows
come home. And he thundered again. Why is that? Because I gave my one and only son to die for you
so that you could know that you'd live forever with me or because you got your way. And I realized
in that moment that My walk with God up to that point had been transactional. As insecure as I was,
as fearful as I was, it was all about what I could get from God because it was so broken,
right? And so I literally, like my life passed before my eyes and I realized everything I had done
up to this point was either to preserve myself, to protect myself, to promote myself because I did
not know that I was loved. I mean, it really brought to, you know. 3D for me that your
righteousness is filthy rags. Any effort to add to what Jesus has done to earn love is just,
it's dirty rags. And I rolled out of bed and went to my face and said, Oh God,
I, you know, I see. the depths of my sinfulness, even in my efforts to try to protect,
preserve, or whatever. And I just said, if you never heal me, I will hate it. But you were my
savior. You're my Lord now. And I actually got up and wrote a poem in my journal.
If you want, I can share it with you because it really was about setting the record straight. See
if I can remember it. I think I titled it A Time for Everything. And it says, I've walked through
many storms. My prayers were filled with tears. the enemy was so big confirming all my fears to a
distant god i would ever cry just wanting an answer always asking why yet heard i not from him nor
his angels singing twas all that i could do his robe to keep on clinging then suddenly one night as
i beckoned him to be so real that i could feel him he finally spoke to me said he my daughter susy
i love you with my life no more would i ever hurt you than be the cause of your strife You see,
it's not my hand that's delivered all this pain, but it's true my hand is there to hold yours in
the rain. It's something how men see me according to their need. Instead of praise and faith,
they ask and beg and plead. I'm a God who doesn't change with this season. I don't have to explain
myself or give you detailed reason. I've given all that I could give when I gave to you, my son.
I emptied out myself for you as if you were the only one. What I do for you, I do for you because I
love you so. What I allow, I allow for you because I want you to grow. In faith,
praise, and trust, you will find you are strong. When demands are replaced by a faithful praise
song, it is there you'll find peace where there once was strife and it'll be just enough to have me
in your life. And that moment boiled down for me that I serve him on his terms and not mine.
It changed the way that I would walk with God. That was a big one for me. That's incredible. It
sounds, I mean, and I love that you do this in the book. You're sort of telling a modern parable
that reminds me very much of Job, the final moments with Job, right?
Where he's just so down and out and God is, you know. He's still setting the record straight.
This is who I am. He's setting his record straight. And I did not cause this. And yeah,
this is who I am.
Paradox, how God does that. And the paradox is that's,
I think, theologically, but in your experience, experientially, what made you actually realized he
loved you. Very much. See, the thing is with Job's story. It's not because he gave you what you
wanted in that moment. It's because he showed you who he really was. That's right. And how is love
for you? But that's such a hard thing for sometimes our little brains. to understand. Well, when I
look at Job's story and you look at, you know, all that he lost, his default response initially was
face down to worship and he did not get there overnight. He truly was a righteous man, just like
God said. But God knew that if you pushed him far enough, as all of us is true about all of us,
there's a little card in our back pocket. It's a quid pro quo, you know, but I did this for you. I
did this, like somehow you owe me, like you pushed me far enough, God, I'm going to rely on my
righteousness, my performance. to say, this is why you owe me something. He owes us nothing. He
owes us nothing. And so God does us a great service to say, I am God and you are not.
And to me, I came into, you know, just a revelation of the holiness of God, but I really did sense
his love. There was another time as a young mom, I'm on my knees reading the Bible and I'm like,
God, where's the victory here? I read about it as it was a young mom battling disease.
I'm fasting. I'm praying. We're flat broke. We got bill collectors calling me, you know, and I
don't see any freedom or breakthrough or victory. Where is it? And he thundered in my heart. You
know that. I know that you love me, Susie, but you don't seem to know that I love you. And until I
tell you differently, every time you want to say, I love you, Lord, I want you to turn it around
and say, you love me, Lord. So I would yell at my kids and I'd feel bad about it. And he'd say, say
it now. I mean, right here. You love me, Lord. You know, I'd wreck the dinner or something, you
know, because I'm not a great cook, you know, and I would, you know, burn the dinner and he'd say,
say it now. You love me, Lord. I'd fall behind on laundry. I love that reframe. You love me, Lord.
And the scripture does say it's not that we loved God. It is that he loved us. Exactly.
It's about his love, not our love. It's his love. And our love is in response to his love. But when
I'm speaking, I ask women to put their hand on their heart to say, I'm your treasure. I'm someone
you love. Half of them straighten up and turn into like, like it's beneath them.
But so it takes humility, I think, to live loved because it's like, we've got nothing if not for
the love of God. And then one more I'll just tell you about is I was on the floor with my three
boys. They're climbing all over me. My face is numb. My memory shot. I'm in young thirties and my
friends are on their second house or their addition and their kids are wearing name brown clothes.
And I just felt like. I've been left behind by God and I couldn't believe this was my life.
But I'm lying on the floor and they're crawling on me. I had no sense of purpose anymore just
because I thought this is my life. And a woman from church, a very godly woman called and she said,
Susie, I've heard the chatter about you. And I knew people were gossiping about me because Lyme
back then was just, they didn't know a lot about it. And it makes you look like a hypochondriac
because it's your body just betraying you every which way you turn. And I knew people were
gossiping and which was so hard for me, Allison, because if I needed attention, I would have asked
for it a different way. I'm a fitness person. I don't want illness. It's the last thing I want.
But anyway. She said, Susie, I've heard the chatter and I know you to be a woman who fears God. So
I brought your case before the Lord. And she said, listen to me, Susie Larson, the Lord has shown
me a platform that he's building with your pain that you'll speak from someday. So lean in and
learn everything you can because you'll have a story to tell. And as soon as we hung up,
I knew it was true. I mean, still the room was spinning. My face was still numb. The bills were
still piled up, but I knew in my knower. There's going to be purpose in this pain. And around that
time is when the Lord's like, do you believe these promises? Like, when are you going to shift your
weight onto them to see if they hold? And so I started to test the promises of God, you know,
and started to stand on the promises. And that's really how my faith was forged. Is that what you
mean? You're using this word contend. What do you mean by this word contend? Okay, I've got you.
I'm all at it here. I am passionate about this because I don't believe the abundant life just shows
up on your doorstep in a nice tidy boat. Jesus won it. It's ours. But we have a thief who steals,
kills, and destroys. And there's some places in... in your life, the enemy has stolen from you.
And my friend says there's a pattern of theft in everybody's life. And like, so for me that day,
when I got that call and the Lord confronted me, are you a believer just because you've secured
eternity? Or do you actually believe this stuff? Like, when are you going to stand on the promises?
Up to that point, because I had so much facial numbing, the doctors told me, don't be surprised the
day you wake up to facial paralysis. So every morning I would wake up and go. Is this the day my
face is going to freeze or droop? It was so scary to be a young 30 something. After that, every
morning I'd look in the mirror. I put my hand on my numb face. I point in the mirror and say, you
will not die, but live and declare the works of the Lord. That's what I mean by contending. I would
hold up my empty checkbook and I would say, my God will supply my needs. All the accusations that
the enemy was bringing. You're a pathetic mom. Your kids are never going to turn out, you know? I'd
put my hand on their head and say, you will be mighty in God somehow. I would say you contend in
the places you're getting attacked because we put up with too much. So in the places where there's
threat, there's intimidation, there is fear. You've got to get yourself a battle box, which I write
about in the book, where you've got your own scriptures and you rise up and say, this is what the
word says. And so I'm standing on the word and I'm not giving any more air time to these threats.
You're not saying. when I do this, God will then heal me. You're so clear, right?
It's more about, so tell me a little, tease that out for us a little bit. You're saying something a
little more nuanced than just, I hold up my checkbook and sit back and God fills my bank account.
Sometimes God doesn't fill the bank account or doesn't do the healing. So walk that, I love how you
nuanced this. Walk us through that a little bit for the listener who's saying, I'm trying to do
that, but I'm still... I'm sick or I'm still broken or my kids aren't turning out the way I wished
they would turn out, right? Like there's a subtle nuance to what you're saying about content that I
think is really important to tease out here. I love, I mean, if we would have gotten off this call
and you wouldn't have asked about that, that's one of those things that a couple would call you
back. Can we please revisit this? Because this is not. the health and wealth gospel. I don't at all
subscribe to that. And A plus B does not always equal C. You could parent beautifully and have a
prodigal. You can eat perfectly and get a disease. What I am saying is that I physically feel
better when there's faith in my heart. You can't please God without faith. And it's not formula.
It's an offering that promises a harvest. I would say parenting is an offering that promises a
harvest will look different than you think. You know, sowing your tears. God collects those tears.
So when I say contend, you know, let me put it this way. I've got a mentor who told me 25 years
ago, Susie. You need to know the difference between expectation and expectancy. She says
expectation is premeditated disappointment. It's you deciding what God should do for you to be
okay. It's you deciding, creating a bullseye. God, you have to hit this bullseye for me to believe
you are who you say you are. He is not bound by our dictates. But some people will approach prayer
that way or the promises that way. And when he doesn't, and he shouldn't because he's a good
father, you know. He does not jump through your hoops. He doesn't do what you say. Thank the Lord.
He's a wise enough father not to. People will go, well, I tried that. And so that doesn't work.
So I'm not going to pray. Where expectancy, on the other hand, is to say, I'm going to live with
wide-eyed wonder and an open heart before God. I don't know how. I don't know when, but I'm going
to see God move in his way, his time in a way that brings redemption to the bigger kingdom story.
And so when I say you're contending for the promises, what you're doing is stepping into the bigger
story and involving God in it. And that is one of the big purposes of this book is to show how
nuanced trust is. And one last thing I'll say about that is the enemy wants to pick you off.
He wants to isolate you. So let's go with the prodigal. If you've got a prodigal, the enemy is
going to attack you. You're a pathetic mom. You can't do anything right. This is all your fault.
It's never helpful. And yet we let that stuff linger unchallenged. What I'm saying is step into the
bigger story to say, you know what? Scripture says, this is not unique to me. I'm not the only one
going through this hardship. So Lord, I'm going to step into the bigger story. I'm going to make
the devil sorry he messed with me. This is just me. I'm going to pray not only for my prodigal, but
I'm going to pray for every brokenhearted parent out there. And Lord, I'm stepping into the bigger
story. Lord, you've forgiven my sins. You've forgiven the ways I've fallen short, but you have
collected my tears. You have heard my prayers. I did some things right as a mom. So Lord,
would you take that offering in your wisdom and your kindness? And would you blow the doors off of
the enemy's scheme against my family? And I'm going to wait. I'm going to watch. going to live with
an expectancy that you will somehow move in your way, in your time.
That's so good. You're, I love what you're a fighter. I love this. I love this part of you. You've
got that. I love that. That contending energy is amazing. I can feel it. And I love what you're
doing, Susie. That's such an important nuance. And I love it because it's very real in the book.
It's not letting a hard, you know, the marriage isn't getting. healed. The kid isn't suddenly
turning back. The disease isn't getting healed. You're not attaching your prayer and your faith to
the outcomes, but you are not going to let the enemy rob you of the bigger picture of what God is
doing. And I just love what you said, because I do think it's how we move away from shame and
resentment and the victim narrative. The enemy of our souls, you know,
Kurt Thompson calls shame, evil's vector, would love to keep us, which helps no one,
even in the midst. And I love how you said, it's not only I'm going to still trust you, God, and I
want you to talk about that because that's what the whole book is about. But I love how you even
took it one step forward. And I'm going to align in solidarity with every woman who's hurting in
this and every child who's like, that is. That's power. That's spiritual power.
It is. And that's the opposite of making an idol out of your pain. And I think we live in a day
where people are getting their identity from their pain and their affliction because they're
getting, we are, you know, there used to be that people didn't talk about their pain. And so the
pendulum now is like, I'm buying the t-shirt. I'm putting it in my profile. I am my pain.
But if you're a believer, you are not your pain. You are not your affliction. You are not your
prodigal. You're not your chronic illness. That's not who you are. And to me, you've got to come
out of agreement with that. And sometimes it's a convenient narrative because you're going to get
all kinds of compassion. There's no fruit coming out of that because that is based on a lie.
And it's false compassion, truly, because he's the God of all comfort. And, you know, and I've got,
you know, as a public person who happens to be an introvert, I do hear from people who say I should
be healed right now. I should be symptom free. If I had more faith, I would be. I've heard it all.
And people either have this sit in the school of speaking of healing. God never heals anymore to
God always heals. And if you're not healed, you missed a step. And I take the messy. middle. I know
he's still a miracle working God. I've seen with my own eyes, miracle healings. That hasn't
happened for me, but I am a walking miracle. I mean, mine's been a long journey and I think I've
needed the journey. Different kind of miracle. It is a different kind of miracle. And you know
what? I had so much trauma baked in. If he would have healed me one day, I would have lost it the
next because of infrastructures and belief systems. And then I know very godly people up till their
last breath. belief for healing. And people say, well, it didn't work. And it's like, no, they
graduated. Can you imagine the homecoming of the soul who has faith in their heart till their last
breath? I mean, do you know how heroic that is? We love to tidy it up in a bow. It's messy,
but faith is precious. And if we could know that our aim is to please and glorify him.
And again, to put the enemy under our feet.
I have two sets of godparents and they're all amazing, but my one godfather had polio. He was one
of the first people to get polio before the vaccine. And to the day he died,
and I tell you what, this man never was healed. I tell you what, this man ministered to more
people. And when he finally passed away, long, long life, living with polio,
he just wanted, thank you, Jesus. Right? So it's the contending may be the miraculous healing.
I love how you're saying that. And the miracle may be that your spirit, your soul...
The long, persistent way genuinely gets to the place of, I'm so grateful, Jesus, for this life
you've given me and for this opportunity. To me, I'm like, that's also a miracle.
And I don't wish that. We don't wish that. But I love what you're saying.
Our vision is so short-sighted. And you're such an invitation.
So Susie, with the time we have left, talk to us then what you mean by...
does it mean about trusting God? What is it really? You know, what is it and how is it different?
Kind of give us the thumbnail about what that looks like in action and in that place of living
loved and not, you know, you're kind of talking all around it,
but what does that mean when that is what the invitation is, no matter what we're facing?
Yeah. So if you look at the title, More than you can imagine what God does when you trust him, the
more than you can imagine comes from Ephesians 3, 2021. God is able, and look at how this
reverberates, do exceedingly abundantly above and beyond. It goes off the screen. All we could ever
dare to ask or imagine, but the clincher is according, according to his work within you. He has no
problem doing it. It's an easy thing in the eyes of the Lord, but he is a gentleman and he will not
force himself on you. And there are plenty of Christians who have so compartmentalized their faith
that they have not given him access to parts of their story. And you want to live an adventure of
faith, give him access to your story. Open up to those places where you're trying to preempt
outcomes. You're trying to control outcomes. If you're willing to invite him in and trust him in
those spaces, you'd be amazed at how faithful he is and where he leads you. So each chapter.
I have a modern day story of someone who trusted God and it shows Alison how nuanced trust is
because sometimes trust is rising up. Sometimes trust is letting go. And that's why you have to
walk intimately with God. You have to know that you're loved. And I say in the book, you're your
best version of yourself when you're walking in the spirit versus walking in the flesh. When you're
in the flesh, trust will not come easy because your dreams. are idolatrous,
your ambitions are idolatrous. When you're in the spirit, you see God for who he is and you'll
better see yourself for who you are. And then you'll discern what trust should look like. And in
scripture, there's times when trust and faith are interchangeable, but there's other times trust is
interchangeable with rest. And still other times trust is interchangeable with waiting on God. But
it always means across the board, I'm going to lean on God and live like he's true.
and that his word is true. I'm going to live like it's true. Could you give us an example,
either from your own life or one of the stories you feature in the book of this? Because I love how
you talk about trust doesn't always look the same for different people, different contexts, of
maybe two different experiences where trusting God required almost opposite responses.
Okay, and this is really good. Okay, so one of my favorite stories is my friend Melissa. And when
she was newly married, they felt very convicted to tithe, just to bring in the whole tithe.
And maybe she was, I mean, I don't know if they started at the beginning, but anyway, she was
pregnant, but they were still fairly newly married. And she happened to be reading in Malachi where
it says, and this is the one area where God says, go ahead and test me in it. And the Malachi
promise says a number of things, but one of the things that said is your fruit will not fall from
the vine before it's time. And something about that line leapt off the page at her. And she put her
hand on her womb because she was pregnant. And it just quickened within her. And she felt like the
Lord just made her a promise. You're going to carry that baby to term. And it just warmed her
spirit. And she thought, I'm going to be okay. Because, you know, you're nervous when you're a
first time mom, especially when you're pregnant. Well, she goes to church that Sunday. And this
woman who was kind of a self-proclaimed prophet of God or whatever, the one, you know, that always
speaks for God. God told me this. God told me that. We could do a whole nother show on that, but I
do believe God speaks, but you got to be so careful with all that, right? You got to be careful.
But she marches up to Melissa and says, God told me you're going to deliver six weeks early. And
Melissa goes, wait, what? And it set her back, as you can imagine. And she kind of puts a
protective hand on her woman. She goes, no, God gave me a promise. I'm going to carry this baby to
term. No, God told me. Every Sunday, this woman would be lined up every Sunday after Sunday after
Sunday. When Melissa was 10 weeks early, her body started to show signs of early labor.
And she went to the doctor and he's like, your cervix is thinning. You're preparing to deliver. And
she went out of the doctor's office crying. And I don't know what you're going to think about this
next, Allison, but this is her story, and I think it's powerful. But she's a lawyer, and so one of
her colleague, lawyer friends from another state, called her and said, you're on my heart so much.
What's going on? And she was crying, and she's like, this is what happened. God gave me this
promise. This woman keeps speaking for God. I just came from the doctor. I'm delivering, and it's
10 weeks too soon. And she said, Melissa, she said, that woman spoke a verbal curse over you and
you did not refute it. And she said, because you let it in, your body is aligning with those words
that were not from God. She says, we're going to refute this. We're going to renounce it. And
you're going to repent of giving any air time to this word. And you're going to come back into
agreement with the promise God gave you from the beginning. And so she's like, I never knew I could
do that. I didn't know this was a thing. And so she's, she repented. Lord, I'm sorry. I gave air
time. You did give me a promise. I refute that. And I'm coming out of agreement and I refuse fear.
I'm going to stand on the word. I really believe I heard from you. Long story short, she delivered
that boy on his due date. And then she delivered child number two on his due date.
She delivered all five kids. on their due date. It was as if God was saying, I'm just showing you I
can. I keep my promises. Now, that's not prescriptive for everybody. It just so happened.
It was a promise. Yeah. And I just think there's something powerful to be said about knowing God's
voice well enough where you go, wait a second here. Because when that woman beelined to her after
that friend prayed with her, she opened her mouth and Melissa put her hand up and said, don't talk
to me. She says, my husband, he's over there. You see him? If you think you have a word, you go
tell him, but you don't get to talk to me about my baby or me ever again. Okay,
you got my... Now, because I have this part of me that's always trying to look at the science.
Because I believe in the spiritual. I've heard stories. I mean, and this is the thing about not
prescriptive. Right. Right. There's different stories for different people. But what is so
fascinating about that, Susie, that story is to me is that action. I mean, this is kind of boundary
stuff. Yes. Right. It's not only emotional and mental health.
There is a spiritual component to it, right? There's a boundary there. You do not get access.
And whether you, you know, whether that's magic, you know, you know, whether that's, you know,
sometimes I think people can, you know, me, you know, I have this side of me and I'll just, I love
the story, but it's like, you know, there's people can take those things to kind of these extremes,
of course. But that, that just that, I love that image of.
Yes. I mean, that stuff comes into us somehow, you know, and it affects us.
And so I love that as an example of one way that for...
refute that. And thou shall not that you shall not pass. You've proven yourself not trustworthy.
And it's cost me to listen to you. So this is where this stops. And she said she physically felt
strength rise up in her because she knew it was the right thing. And the other story that I want
you to read if you get the book is about Otto. Otto Koenig is a missionary in New Guinea, and his
trust was letting go. He was getting so worked up on people who were stealing from him. And the
Lord said, this is mine. They owe me now. They don't owe you anymore. And he released the debt that
they owed. And God intervened in a way that was. It's amazing. It's such a good story. This is why
you've got to know his voice. This is good tease. Yes, yes. You've got to know his voice so you
know what trust looks like. I love that juxtaposition of the letting go and the refuting.
And that, again, it's not prescriptive. And I love,
Susie, I just want to thank you as we're winding down here. I'm aware, as a psychologist,
I can overweight our responsibility piece.
Maybe not even overweighted, but at least that's where I – what is mine to own here?
And I love that you're coming in in your own story and here's what God does. I just –
it's ministering to me and I know it will minister to my audience, right? Because we do – we have
responsibility in this. We have to make the choices. We have to – And I know you've done,
and here's what God does. Here's what God does. And it's never to earn. It's always because we are
loved. What are some just final words you would say for the woman who's listening, who has been
maybe doing the therapy, doing the work, praying the prayers, trying to stay faithful,
and yet maybe still finds herself in a place where the relationship isn't healed?
The child is still, she's still worrying about, you know, what is one thing you would encourage
this woman to do to trust, to reach toward God in trust today?
I actually have three things, if you don't mind, because they feel all equally important. I have a
brain scientist on my show, Dr. Lee Warren, every month. And one of the things he said is, yeah,
he's a good, good friend. But he said, your most powerful emotions reveal your deepest beliefs.
So I would say, even though you're in process, aren't we all? I mean, you know, even though things
aren't where you want them to be, I just don't know that they will be till we see Jesus face to
face. And we all have. our burdens and our battles and our broken hearts. But on the days when your
feelings and your emotions about those things are super pronounced, I would just back up a little
bit to go, what am I believing right now? Because it is revelatory of this accumulated belief
system that we acquire over time dealing with chronic issues, whether it's marriage, whatever.
We acquire belief systems that aren't really serving us because they're not in agreement with what
scripture says. So it has helped me so much because I still have days. I wake up, everything goes
numb. I feel inflammation in my brain. My tongue isn't as sharp as I need it to be because I have
inflammation and I hate it. I can't, I mean, at this age and stage, I can't tell you how excited I
am to get my new body. I'm just being honest. But when the emotion of it comes up, it's like, what
am I afraid of? What am I really believing right now? So I would just use that as a tool to step
back for just a moment and analyze. Because if you've walked with God, you've got some core beliefs
that you actually truly believe. You might just feel like this thing is true. So it's a perfect
time when the emotion is surfaced. They even say in neuroplasticity, when the live wire is going
wild is exactly the time to redirect. It's exactly the time to go. who are you and where are you
coming from? And I'm going to put you on the path of redemption. So just, you know, all your
emotions, as I'm sure you teach all the time on this podcast, they're not always good counselors
are telling you the truth. So you get to be a work in progress without the condemnation, but your
emotions are going to lead you astray sometimes. So just maybe discern. What are you believing in
the moment? The other thing, one of the things the Lord showed me was you don't have to feel well
to be powerful. I want to feel well. When I feel well, I feel so happy.
But he told me that years ago when I was begging him to heal me, you don't have to feel well to be
powerful in the kingdom. And I remember it was just a few years ago. So not very long ago, I was
standing. I spoke at a family camp and I told some of my story and my hubby,
I don't even know what any of my books cost and I don't want to know. He works the table, right?
And so he's standing there checking people out and I just stand there and pray with people. And
this woman looked down the table at the books I'd written and she's like, okay, I heard that story.
And I see all like, where did you get the strength to write these books? And it never occurred to
me. I almost started crying. I looked down the table. I'm like, Oh, my word. And I,
you know, I remembered what he said. You don't have to feel well to be powerful. I would say the
number two thing is don't postpone dreaming and getting a vision. Don't wait for all your ducks to
line up before you. dream big dreams with God. I mean, you know, it's like every time I start a new
book, I feel like an imposter. Every time I stare at a blank page, I hear you don't know what
you're doing. I'm like, I agree. But still, you just take it one step at a time.
And before you know it, I mean, if you're going to feel crummy, if you're going to struggle in your
marriage, you're going to struggle anyway. So why not bear some fruit, move some mountains and slay
some demons while you're at it? I mean, just get some. Get a dream and follow the Lord in it,
right? We all need you in our ears.
And the final thing, this came from another neuroscientist that was on my show years ago because I
had a pretty bad relapse 10 years ago that affected my brain in a pretty significant way with mold.
I had seven areas on an MRI that showed some like what they call brain damage and it was affecting
me cognitively and even diction in my speech. It was a nightmare. But I wanted to know how to like
rewire my brain. I wanted to know how to heal. And he said, I've got an assignment for your
listeners. And so I'm going to leave you with this, Allison, an assignment for your viewers and
followers, because this will change you like you can't believe. He said, I want you to spend 15
minutes a day for the next 30 days meditating on the love God has for you.
Not on the love you have for him. That can be another 15 minutes. But this 15 minutes is you,
whether it's a worship playlist, whether you're writing out paraphrased scripture, whether you're
just saying it over and over again, God, I just thank you for your love. I thank you for every
detail of my life. I thank you that you're in every moment where you're just receiving and
believing his love. He said, you do that 15 minutes a day after a month. If you were to take labs
like before and after, your inflammatory markers would go down. Your labs would literally improve.
Your brain scan would look different. Think about that. But most of all, what would that do to your
faith perspective? I just don't, I think we're, we're perpetual forgetters. We have air amnesia and
you don't default to faith, hope, and love. You default to fear, insecurity, blaming,
judging, victim, all the stuff. The only way you're going to default to faith, hope, and love is if
you apply yourself to it, is if you make such a case for it in your heart and in your mind, that
that's what your brain and your heart know because you're. Building resilient trust. And so that
would be my assignment is just spend 15 minutes for the next 30 days and see what happens in your
life. Building resilient trust. Love that.
Susie Larson, you're just a gem. Tell us where we can find this book and all the things you're
doing in the world. Well, thank you, first of all, for having me. I just treasure you and God has
so uniquely placed you. in your story and in the kingdom story for such a time as this.
I mean, really, nobody does things like you do, Alison. And so I just really do honor the gift of
God in you. So thank you for what you do and for having me. Suzy Larson Live is the name of my
show. And as I said at the beginning, you're going to be joining me pretty soon here to celebrate
your amazing new book. You can list it on podcast wherever, but it's a live show.
You could find the app or live stream it. Just look for Suzy Larson Live. You'll find it. And then
wherever books are sold, more than you can imagine, Amazon, Barnes & Noble, wherever, you'll find
it. And I pray it blesses you. It's a great book. We'll link to it in the show notes. And I know
it's going to bless a lot of people. We just... appreciate you so much and for your honesty and
transparency and all that you've contended for. You've left me thinking about what that means.
I think that's just a powerful contending for, and really what I'm hearing you say is contending
for the reality that God loves me. Exactly. And all that that means. And when you know his love,
you will trust his ways. Because I mean, it's his love that doesn't give you everything you want
when you want it. You know, I mean, it's like when you open yourself up to the bigger story and you
realize he's playing the long game, you will trust him with his ways. And yeah,
it's nothing like walking with God. Thank you for sharing it with us. Yes.
God bless you, my friend. Thank you for joining me for this week's episode of The Best of You. It
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